XFX Black Edition 850w ATX PSU

Simulated Load Testing

Simulated Load Testing
 
To provide accurate and consistent results in all of our PSU testing, Overclock3D uses professional grade DC electronic load equipment capable of placing a sustained load of 3690w across a total of six rails (including +5vsb and -12v) on the PSU! This is achieved by using a combination of SunMoon and Analogic electronic load equipment which allow us to adjust amperage loads in increments as small as 0.01A while also measuring voltage and wattage readings on-screen.
 
During today's tests, we will be placing the XFX Black Edition under 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% load levels inside a hot box regulated to a temperature of around 50°C. Additional 'Cross Load' and a 'Max Load' tests will also be performed under these conditions to simulate how the PSU reacts to heavily uneven loads as well as running above its specified output.
 
XFX Black Edition 850w Results @ 50°C
   +3.3v  +5.0v  +12v  +5vSB  -12v  AC Watts /
 DC Watts
 Efficiency  Intake /
 Exhaust
Δ Temp
Test 1
(Low)
4.37A 4.37A 14.00A  0.75A  0.20A  242w /
213w
 88.01% 50.4°C /
47.4°C
-3.0°C
3.40v 5.12v 12.16v 5.00v  -12.05v
Test 2
(Med)
8.75A 8.75A 28.00A 1.5A  0.40A  471w /
425w
 90.23% 51.4°C /
55.4°C
4.0°C
3.39v
5.10v
12.10v 4.96v  -12.06v
Test 3
(High)
13.12A 13.12A 42.00A  2.25A  0.60A  705w /
636w
 90.21%  49.5C /
55.7°C
6.2°C
3.38v 5.08v 12.06v 4.93v -12.11v
Test 4
(Full)
17.50A 17.50A 56.00A 3.00A  0.80A 948w /
849w
89.55%  51.0°C /
59.9°C
 8.9°C
3.37v 5.07v 12.00v 4.89v -12.17v
Test 5
(x-load)
17.00A 16.00A 1.00A 0.00A 0.00A  182w /
151w
82.96% 51.6°C /
49.3°C
-2.3 °C
3.39v 5.11v 12.14v 5.01v -12.60v
Test 6
(x-load)
 1.00A  1.00A  70.00A  0.00A 0.00A 939w /
850w
90.52% 50.8°C /
59.3°C
 8.5°C
3.40v 5.14v 12.02v 4.98v -14.33v
Test 7
(MAX)
 22.00A  22.00A 61.00A  4.00A  0.80A  ----w /
~950w
--.--%  --.--°C /
52.0°C
 -.-°C
-.--v -.--v --.--v -.--v --.--v
 
XFX Black Edition 850w Performance Overview
 +3.3v Diff.
T1-T4
 +5.0v Diff.
T1-T4
 +12v Diff.
T1-T4
+5vSB Diff.
T1-T2
-12v Diff.
T1-T2
Avg Effic.
T1-T4
Noise Rating
0.88% 0.97% 1.31%  2.20%  0.99% 89.50% Low
 
Before we get to the big red part of the chart I first want to draw your attention to the standard tests 1-4. These best reproduce the kind of load that the PSU will receive when installed inside a PC. As we can see from the results and indeed the performance overview chart above, the XFX Black Edition 850w has some of the most stable rails I've ever seen in any PSU tested before on OC3D. The +3.3v and +5v rails are especially solid with less than a 1% drop in voltages from a low to full load which even bests our current favourite PSU, the Corsair HX850w. Efficiency was also extremely good with a high of 90.23% being seen at a 425w load in test 2 and an overall average of 89.50%.
 
However, all is not well. Part of OC3D's PSU testing procedure involves a "MAX Load" test in which the PSU is placed under a continually increasing load which takes it outside of its rated specification. This not only identifies the true capabilities of the PSU (for example if it is a 750w PSU overclocked to 850w, or a 1000w PSU underclocked to 850w) but also ensures that the OCP (Over Current Protection) is fully functional on the unit. Unfortunately this is where the XFX failed in a BIG way.
 
During this test the load was increased to 22A on both the +3.3v and +5v rails and 62A on the +12v rail. This combined with the small load on the +5vSB and -12v rail equated to around a 970w load on the PSU (120w above rated output). At first, everything appeared to be working fine. The ripple results were perfectly acceptable, the exhaust temperature was around 65°C and the voltages were all well within spec. Around a minute later the PSU powered off. Nothing unusual there, OCP had kicked in and saved the day. To find out whether the unit would be capable of sustaining a slightly lower load, the +12v rail load was reduced to 61A and the PSU powered back on. What happened next warranted a change of underwear...

 
An EXTREMELY loud BANG (heard even two floors down!) was emitted from the PSU accompanied by a bright flash. Yes, the XFX Black Edition had failed in a potentially dangerous way. Luckily none of the OC3D equipment was damaged by the elaborate death of the XFX PSU, but it is extremely worrying that the OCP protection on the PSU didn't kick in for a second time. Of course this could be put down to the unit being from a faulty batch, but as the unit tested in the video was the 2nd one to suffer this exact fate at the hands of our MAX LOAD tests, something does indeed seem wrong.
 
XFX Black Edition 850w Scope Results @ 50c
   +3.3v  +5.0v  +12v
Test 1
(Low)
T1_3.3V T1_5V T1_12V
Test 2
(Med)
t2_3.3v t2_5v t2_12v
Test 3
(High)
t3_3.3v t3_5v t3_12v
Test 4
(Full)
t4_3v t4_5v t4_12v
Test 5
(x-load)
t5_3.3v t5_5v t5_12v
Test 6
(x-load)
t6_3.3v t6_5v t6_12v
Test 7
(MAX)




Finally we come to the +3.3v, +5v and +12v ripple results as recorded using a Rigol 25Mhz 400MSa/s oscilloscope during the load tests further up the page. Once again, the standard test 1-4 are exceptional with the ripple hitting a high of 30.4mV on the +3.3v rail, 22.4mV on the +5v rail and 36mV on the +12v rail. Even the cross-load results come back all-clear with a maximum ripple of 60.8mV on the +12v rail during test 6. Of course, the big let-down is once again Test 7 where I didn't have a chance to record any results before the unit met its untimely demise.
 
Now let's move on to the conclusion where I try to sum up everything seen today...     
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Most Recent Comments

12-10-2009, 08:47:03

JN
"XFX's entry into the PSU market may look like it's a prop from an alien sci-fi movie, but how will it cope up when placed up against the OC3D anal probe testing procedures?"

http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/artic...112017457s.jpg

XFX Black Edition 850w ATX PSU

12-10-2009, 09:05:28

tinytomlogan
Have to say that video is great for suspense! Rather shocking for such a big brand though. Be interesting to see if they say anything.

Still think that people will buy this no matter what just because it looks good and has XFX written on it.

12-10-2009, 09:12:02

I Hunta x
ok is it just me or does the top of that psu look amazing?

the bang want that big in the video tho =\ i was expecting the camera to wobble and someone nearly cacking them self

other than that good review from the quick scim i gave it for now.

12-10-2009, 09:42:09

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='I Hunta x'

the bang want that big in the video tho =\ i was expecting the camera to wobble and someone nearly cacking them self
You can always turn up your volume for a more authentic reproduction. Unfortunately all the "cacking" was done when the first unit went bang right as I had my ear pressed against it while listening to the fan noise.

12-10-2009, 11:27:57

VonBlade
Jim = Mr Calm.

Couple of cracks and he doesn't jump, flinch, move, gasp... nothing.

If BFG and XFX have taught us anything, and to a certain extent the woeful air performance on Corsairs 800D, it's that companies should stick to doing what they do best.

12-10-2009, 11:54:34

monkey7
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
Have to say that video is great for suspense! Rather shocking for such a big brand though. Be interesting to see if they say anything.

Still think that people will buy this no matter what just because it looks good and has XFX written on it.
And has high efficiency + good rippling as long as you don't let a madman with heavy testing equipment near it

12-10-2009, 13:15:05

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='monkey7'
And has high efficiency + good rippling as long as you don't let a madman with heavy testing equipment near it
Yep. So long as you don't exceed the rated output then there should be absolutely no problems. The MAX Load test is just there to test the capabilities of the PSU (much like CPU overclocking) and the safety features of the unit. I also test every PSU for SCP - Short Circuit Protection (which is kinda like OCP anyway) to ensure that they power off when a connector is shorted.

Unless somebody tests thse features everyone just takes for granted that they work until one day their PSU turns into an arc welder

12-10-2009, 14:46:34

zak4994
Quite a shame really.

This ruins XFX's brilliant reputation.

Hope they fix this problem quick.

12-10-2009, 14:54:15

PeterStoba
Nice review Jim, good to see a bang finally

I wouldn't say it's a problem not being able to deliver 120w over the rated load, as it's not rated as a 970w unit...

12-10-2009, 15:00:28

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PeterStoba'
Nice review Jim, good to see a bang finally

I wouldn't say it's a problem not being able to deliver 120w over the rated load, as it's not rated as a 970w unit...
Not exactly, but then you could apply that logic to a car. What would happen if Ford sold a car that officially had a top speed of 150mph on paper, but down the motor way you got it up to 165mph and the wheels fell off.

IMO you either limit the speed to what is on the paper, or make sure it can cope with going that little bit faster without falling apart.

12-10-2009, 15:01:26

PeterStoba
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Jim'
Not exactly, but then you could apply that logic to a car. What would happen if Ford sold a car that officially had a top speed of 150mph on paper, but down the motor way you got it up to 165mph and the wheels fell off.

IMO you either limit the speed to what is on the paper, or make sure it can cope with going that little bit faster without falling apart.
Naughty! :O

I didn't think of it like that, suppose you're right.

12-10-2009, 15:08:18

tinytomlogan
Something I also thought about is if its like that new, what happens overtime, will it get worse? What happens if theres a storm or something the overcurrent not working properly could be a very bad thing imho

12-10-2009, 15:10:05

zak4994
First of all, I doubt 120 watts is a "little bit" more.

Secondly, unless you were stupid enough to SLI two/three cards that require more than 850 watts, then you deserve to have your PSU go boom. Common sense peoples.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Jim'
Not exactly, but then you could apply that logic to a car. What would happen if Ford sold a car that officially had a top speed of 150mph on paper, but down the motor way you got it up to 165mph and the wheels fell off.

IMO you either limit the speed to what is on the paper, or make sure it can cope with going that little bit faster without falling apart.
Again, this is another form of stupidity. If the car states that it can go up to 150mph, why would anyone be stupid enough to try and go over it. lol

I don't necessarily recall any event in the past that resulted in the some for of computer hardware suddenly spiking up its energy draw up by 120 watts.

12-10-2009, 15:14:13

tinytomlogan
Actualy Zak 120watts is nothing for a high end PSU, the Corsair 750w does near on 1000w within ATX spec in the hotbox and the 1000w has been tested again by us @ 1480w.

Read all the PSU tests and we test them all the same, this is the first (pair) of PSU's we have had in that have died in this way

12-10-2009, 15:15:40

zak4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
Actualy Zak 120watts is nothing for a high end PSU, the Corsair 750w does near on 1000w within ATX spec in the hotbox and the 1000w has been tested again by us @ 1480w.

Read all the PSU tests and we test them all the same, this is the first (pair) of PSU's we have had in that have died in this way
Bah! Blasphemy! I never go wrong(!) lol.

Not the point ttl lol.

12-10-2009, 15:18:49

Ham
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='zak4994'
Again, this is another form of stupidity. If the car states that it can go up to 150mph, why would anyone be stupid enough to try and go over it. lol
Wtf? you dont OC your cpu/gpu huh?

This is Overclock3d.net, not stockcrap.net.

12-10-2009, 15:19:11

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='zak4994'
First of all, I doubt 120 watts is a "little bit" more.

Secondly, unless you were stupid enough to SLI two/three cards that require more than 850 watts, then you deserve to have your PSU go boom. Common sense peoples.
Are we heading the way of a 'natural selection' argument again If safety features are used then they must work IMO. No point in having railings on the edge of a cliff if they are stuck there with blutack

12-10-2009, 15:19:14

tinytomlogan
The point is mate, the over current is a big fail in that PSU, and its a massive problem.

12-10-2009, 15:23:49

zak4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Ham'
Wtf? you dont OC your cpu/gpu huh?

This is Overclock3d.net, not stockcrap.net.
Did I forget to mention common sense?

If you are an enthusiast who wishes to overclock, then I would recommend that you buy yourself a better, more powerful PSU.

Gah! I will give in. CBB to continue this discussion lol.

12-10-2009, 16:55:00

RSC08
Have OC3D tried to contact XFX yet?

12-10-2009, 17:04:55

tinytomlogan
This was the 2nd PSU so yes, and we have spoken to them tonight. Does seem to be a big concern for them tbh.

12-10-2009, 17:25:13

RSC08
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
This was the 2nd PSU so yes, and we have spoken to them tonight. Does seem to be a big concern for them tbh.
What did they say, bad batch or faulty design?

12-10-2009, 17:36:08

tinytomlogan
Think it will be getting discussed with the oem manufacturer

12-10-2009, 17:37:46

RSC08
That's another thing I don't get... This PSU is nothing more than a Seasonic M12D 850w with even better voltage regulation. So, how can Seasonic build a PSU with crappy OCP? It's Seasonic for crying out loud...

12-10-2009, 18:20:19

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='RSC08'
That's another thing I don't get... This PSU is nothing more than a Seasonic M12D 850w with even better voltage regulation. So, how can Seasonic build a PSU with crappy OCP? It's Seasonic for crying out loud...
*cough* thats the problem with it

12-10-2009, 18:54:58

RSC08
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
*cough* thats the problem with it
The voltage regulation or being a Seasonic made PSU?

13-10-2009, 02:15:45

JN
What Tom is trying to imply is that yes, it would seem that this particular model does have OCP issues. Every other PSU I've performed the "MAX Load" test on I could keep tripping OCP until the cows come home without any ill effect. However, just a couple of trips of OCP on this unit and *bang*.

Unfortunately when we tested the M12D, the max load test wasn't part of the procedure, but given that they are the same unit essentially I'd be willing to place a bet that they have the same issue.

13-10-2009, 06:11:44

RSC08
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Jim'
What Tom is trying to imply is that yes, it would seem that this particular model does have OCP issues. Every other PSU I've performed the "MAX Load" test on I could keep tripping OCP until the cows come home without any ill effect. However, just a couple of trips of OCP on this unit and *bang*.

Unfortunately when we tested the M12D, the max load test wasn't part of the procedure, but given that they are the same unit essentially I'd be willing to place a bet that they have the same issue.
You should try to get a hold of one, M12D, and test it again. If this is confirmed it is indeed a big design flaw...

13-10-2009, 06:34:38

tinytomlogan
The offer has been sent. Plenty of people think it would be a very good idea to find out if these are indeed safe.

13-10-2009, 06:38:18

RSC08
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
The offer has been sent. Plenty of people think it would be a very good idea to find out if these are indeed safe.
Second that. They should really sent you one (make it two) for re-testing.

By the way, how can you explain that in this review they pulled 996.8w from it without any issue?

The idea behind of overload tests is to see if the power supply will burn/explode and see if the protections from the power supply are working correctly. This power supply didnít burn or explode.

13-10-2009, 06:51:27

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='RSC08'
You should try to get a hold of one, M12D, and test it again. If this is confirmed it is indeed a big design flaw...
Yeah I'm going to try. The only thing is that we'd probably have to get a retail sample as I cant see us getting anything direct

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='RSC08'

By the way, how can you explain that in this review they pulled 996.8w from it without any issue?
Interesting. I would like to know how long they actually maintained that load for. During my tests of the unit it did indeed hold up just shy of 1000w for about 1-2 minutes before powering off. At this point I started to lower the +12v load until I could find a load that it was capable of holding for more than 10 minutes solid. It was during this process that the 'explosion' occured.

Although I don't want to knock anyone's testing procedures, I know all too well how tempting it is to run a test at a certain load for just enough time to gather the results before moving on. Especially when you get to 1000w, the heat from the PSU and load testing equipment can get a bit much - not to mention damage to your load equipment if it is not properly cooled.

13-10-2009, 19:18:10

Hassan
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='zak4994'
Quite a shame really.

This ruins XFX's brilliant reputation.

Hope they fix this problem quick.
Not their whole reputation - only their reputation in the PSU field.

14-10-2009, 14:16:11

zak4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Hassan'
Not their whole reputation - only their reputation in the PSU field.
Well it depends on how much the person knows about XFX.

If a person is new to all of this, then he probably would be disgusted at XFX on the whole since that person wouldn't really know anything about them previously.

14-10-2009, 22:05:46

Charged
This is really unfortunate. I had this PSU on order and cancelled it based on this review

I did a decent amount of research in coming to my conclusion to order it in the first place. Even though i may never create the circumstance that this would take place i still would not feel comfortable leaving my computer on while i am not at home.

I would gladly support a company that takes a boring little box and turns it into something that i would find next to a Strog's corpse and has the same or better quality as other current power supplies. I'd even be willing to spend the extra $20-$30 for it. Heck they are supposed to last 5 years right?

But alas... i cancelled my order and got an HX1000w for $200 on sale.

Their lack of response to rectify this matter didn't help their cause in my decision.

23-10-2009, 05:32:30

Bungral
Finally got around to reading this.

Was wondering why the thread had 4 pages...

Tis a shame really but after reading the comments it isn't likely to get to those levels in normal use.

The problem comes though if you're say drawing 700W during some gaming or something and you get a nice juicy power surge or as Tom previously mentioned, a lightning strike. Pretty sure that could send up to those levels and beyond. If the protections aren't functioning properly at that point, then POP.

07-11-2009, 00:35:22

Ravenheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
Read all the PSU tests and we test them all the same, this is the first (pair) of PSU's we have had in that have died in this way
Regarding the XFX 850w Black Edition PSU which the above quote is aimed at, did any of you (as in tinytomlogan or Jim) manage to find out exactly what XFX had to say about this OR what they planned to do about it (if anything?) and did you or have you/are you planning on having them send you another one of these PSU's in the near future? Because I'm very concerned about this as I had to recently RMA a Corsair TX 850 watt psu despite it getting good reviews, because there was a fault with it so I decided against getting a replacement and instead went for the XFX 850 watt psu after reading some good reviews on it, and before I read the review on this site I went and purchased it (and it got to the stage where I couldn't cancel it as I chose next day delivery) it'll be here today Saturday the 7th of November, but what worries me and would have made me cancel the order is what happened in your review which you have mentioned has NEVER happened with any other PSU's you've tested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
This was the 2nd PSU so yes, and we have spoken to them tonight. Does seem to be a big concern for them tbh.
Question is, has it been a big enough concern to them? And I'm also wondering if they've done any testing of their own? And if they've fixed this problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
The point is mate, the over current is a big fail in that PSU, and its a massive problem.
As above, I really hope they have fixed this problem, and I'd appreciate if someone could reply to this thread again (possibly Jim or tinytomlogan) and see if any progress might have been made, because I've paid a massive amount for this PSU (well massive for me) it cost me £145 inc delivery and I won't be happy if it's second rate goods and the OCP doesn't work as it should, say when it's lightning outside and there might be a surge , I do have my PC connected to a surge protector but that's not the point, for such an expensive PSU I would expect it to be flawless, so what should I do now, leave it boxed up and send it straight back OR keep it and hope for the best? As I'm really sick of all the hassle of having to rma computer components/parts that don't work as they should lol.

I look forward to some response as trawling the internet I have found no other news about this PSU being 'Fixed'

07-11-2009, 03:27:59

tinytomlogan
We have heard nothing back from eitherside yet, I will try and get some information next week for you dude. All we know for now is it was a big concern, and XFX had decided to do their own testing with Seasonic the OEM manufacturer.

07-11-2009, 06:13:57

JN
In addition to what Tom said, various sources have told me that this PSU (and indeed a lot of other single rail PSU's) do not have OCP on the +12v rail at all.

To break it down, OCP is what is often used to split the output of the 12v transformer in PSU's that have more than one rail. For example, say you have a PSU that has a single 12v transformer, but on the spec shets it says that it has 4x 12v rails all rated at 18A. This is the manufacturer using Over Current Protection to 'virtually' split that single transformer into four rails.

However, even if a PSU doesn't have OCP it will also have OPP (Over Power Protection). OPP performs a very similar function in that it is supposed to shut down the PSU before an overload occurs. The only caveat is that it is often on the primary side (mains voltage) side of the PSU and therefore isn't as accurate as OCP in measuring just how overloaded the PSU is.

So basically to summarise, the XFX 850w DOES NOT have OCP on the +12v rail AT ALL. What killed the PSU in our testing was poorly implimented OPP protection and components (schottky diode in this case) that just couldnt take the additional load.

The reason it hasn't happened to any single rail PSU's we've tested before is that they have all had more finely tuned OPP protection, better components and better OTP (Over Temperature Protection) on the components that are likely to overheat and exploded.

/takes a breath

07-11-2009, 09:51:21

Ravenheart
So what would you recommend I do on a professional level? Send the XFX back to ebuyer for a full refund and try to find a psu that's more stable or will it actually be okay, as in how likely is it I would have a MAJOR problem if it was thundering/lightning outside if the protection is a bit shoddy!

And is there even a chance it's been fixed at all??

And I appreciate you saying you'll try to find out more info for me hope they get in touch soon.

07-11-2009, 10:13:52

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Ravenheart'
So what would you recommend I do on a professional level? Send the XFX back to ebuyer for a full refund and try to find a psu that's more stable or will it actually be okay, as in how likely is it I would have a MAJOR problem if it was thundering/lightning outside if the protection is a bit shoddy!

And is there even a chance it's been fixed at all??

And I appreciate you saying you'll try to find out more info for me hope they get in touch soon.
A lightning strike doesn't really come into the equation with the problems we highlighted. Any surge via your mains should be stopped by your house breakers (and if you have an expensive PC - I hope you've also got a surge protector too!). OCP/OPP can't save you here.

The only time that using the XFX PSU could _potentially_ be harmful to your PC is if you run it above 850w. So for example in 6 months if you decide to go Tri-SLI without thinking about the max output of your PSU, this is when you could be at risk.

07-11-2009, 12:03:20

Freak
As Jim said it only blew when pushed. I dont think with a 'normal' set up you would get it to go pop.

So i would very much doubt it will go bang.

But as you bough it on the internetz then you are able to send it back and get a full refund - as long as its in 14 (i think its 14) days.

But honestly I wouldnt bother.

07-11-2009, 13:59:08

Ravenheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Jim'
A lightning strike doesn't really come into the equation with the problems we highlighted. Any surge via your mains should be stopped by your house breakers (and if you have an expensive PC - I hope you've also got a surge protector too!). OCP/OPP can't save you here.

The only time that using the XFX PSU could _potentially_ be harmful to your PC is if you run it above 850w. So for example in 6 months if you decide to go Tri-SLI without thinking about the max output of your PSU, this is when you could be at risk.
The spec of my PC is below,

Case = Antec 300

Case fans = 2 120mm fans at the front of my case

Memory = Corsair 4gb XMS3 DDR3 1333 mhz ram

Motherboard = Gigabyte P55-UD3

CPU = Intel Core i7 860 @ 2.80 ghz

Graphics Card = NVIDIA gtx 275 896mb ram

Hard Disks = 120gb Seagata SATA/320gb Hitachi SATA II/1tb Hitachi SATA II

Optical Drives = Samsung DVD-Rom Drive and a Pioneer DVD-RW Drive both SATA

And I've got no plans on going tri-sli anytime in the next 6 months or even after that at the moment.

But what's driving me nuts is the fact that if I did want to I wouldn't be able to, or that's what I gathered when you said I may be at risk, because I would have thought if I wanted to I should have the option without having to worry about it blowing up on me lol.

How much wattage does my current spec take/need then?

P.S) This is the surge protector I have my PC connected to hxxp://img20.imageshack.us/img20/398/1002880x.jpg couldn't post this as an image because not allowed to post url's to other sites unless 15 posts have been made

07-11-2009, 14:01:58

tinytomlogan
That system will be fine on an 850w dude tbh, you wont be getting near 750w even on 100% tbh.

07-11-2009, 14:09:34

Ravenheart
So should I just keep it then? The only issue I have is if I wanted to go sli or even tri-sli in the future i'd be worried it would go bang.

Sooooo big question is do I keep it or rma it and get one that I know won't blow up on me now or in the future.

P.S) I just did the Power Supply Calculator here hxxp://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine and it reckons I'd only need 334 watts for all of the above, that can't be right surely! Unless you're supposed to double whatever it tells you?

07-11-2009, 15:31:53

tinytomlogan
Did you run the calculator at 100%?

Youd be suprised tbh dude, a 600w psu would probs be ok for your system atm.

Im not sure if you could rma without it being broken tbh, even then most places would be inclinedto send an identicle replacement.

The issue we had with the PSU's was they didnt cut out, so unless you are planning on building an insane gaming machine you should be fine. Later down the line if you decide to go SLI chances are youll change other parts anyways, I know I do *blush*

07-11-2009, 19:02:38

Ravenheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
Im not sure if you could rma without it being broken tbh, even then most places would be inclinedto send an identicle replacement.
I've been back and ran the calculator at 100% and it says Recommended PSU Wattage: 391 watts

I did have a ThermalTake 600 Watt PSU before this one and just upgraded it because of getting a new cpu/ram/mobo, the one in my current spec.

Can't say I'm thinking of building an insane gaming machine but as mentioned previously I should have the option to considering the price of the xfx psu!, the reason I spent so much on the psu as well (although I get your point about you changing your parts) is that I thought spend the money on a decent psu now so I don't have to in the future.

And the fact that I always sell on the parts I'm upgrading to put some money towards the upgrade, I sold the ThermalTake 600 watt psu for £47 before I bought the Corsair I had originally.

As for rma'ing, you are able to rma if you've had the psu less than 7 days and I've only had the xfx one for 1 day and not even put it in my machine yet.

07-11-2009, 20:35:44

tinytomlogan
Thats not rma thats just plain refund - distance selling rules and all

07-11-2009, 21:25:27

Ravenheart
That's true but try telling that to the companies components are bought off, I have to rma the bl**dy thing just to get a refund.

Which yeah technically is only a refund, but companies like to take the long way round (I guess) as it has to be rma'd first which is the point I was trying to make, even though technically it's not an rma because i'm returning it to the reseller not the manufacturer of the psu.

Thanks for your replies

10-11-2009, 07:43:19

Ravenheart
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tinytomlogan'
We have heard nothing back from eitherside yet, I will try and get some information next week for you dude. All we know for now is it was a big concern, and XFX had decided to do their own testing with Seasonic the OEM manufacturer.
Well after wondering what to do regarding this PSU, I decided to contact XFX personally and this is the entire history from my conversation with one of there technicians, over the course of yesterday and today.

[ 7/11/2009 8:02:39 PM] I have read that when tested this power supply blew up and that it was a major issue for you at the time of the review and that you were looking into it! The review was read on overclock3d.net and has been discussed at length here hxxp://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=354173#post354173 Can someone please get back to me and let me know what has been done about the stability of this psu (to stop further potential problems) and if the problemthat caused the psu to blow up has now been rectified?

[SHAUN_T 9/11/2009 11:38:10 AM] Hi, thanks for your messages. Please note, it was the weekend when you posted your support ticket, therefore there were no technicians available to answer your question at the time. There have been many XFX PSUs sold recently and the customers have had no issues whatsoever, so there are no known faults or issues with the product. Have you tried installing it into your system? If you have any problems with it, please do let us know. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 9/11/2009 1:28:23 PM] No I haven`t tried installing it in my system as yet because of the review I read, and i`m not sure whether or not to just rma it for a refund because, now I`m not sure if they deliberately overstressed the psu or not but they are claiming that the protection that`s supposed to be built into the psu to stop it blowing up or exploding only kicked in once and the 2nd time it blew up and they claim it happened to 2 out of 2 of the psu`s, can you do me a favour and read the review via the link I posted then report back to me what you make of it so I can have some sort of peace of mind and a genuine honest opinion from yourself. The review is located here hxxp://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=354173#post354173 Thank you

[SHAUN_T 9/11/2009 2:54:49 PM] Hi, thanks for your message. Like I said, there are no common faults/batch issues etc with the XFX PSUs, we have had many customers using them without a problem. I have scanned over the review vaguely but we cannot pass much comment as we do not know the system setup etc etc. Why they had these problems I do not know, but there isnt much more I can do than to assure you there are no problems with the PSUs. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 9/11/2009 3:30:14 PM] So is it wrong to assume that you knew about this issue because they mentioned they had informed you (well not you personally) but XFX about this issue and that you knew about it, and that XFX were very concerned about this and were going to run some tests to verify there was no problem because you seem to be side stepping the issue completely instead of assuring me the units had been tested after that review and that those 2 out of 2 units must have had a fault. You have done nothing to ease my mind as you have clearly stated that there are no common faults with xfx psu`s, but how would you know if you hadn`t done some tests after that review quite clearly stated you had been informed and they had no response from xfx regarding the issue. Thanks for replying.

[SHAUN_T 10/11/2009 11:36:55 AM] Hi, thanks for your message. If there was an issue with the PSUs, for example, a batch issue they would have been recalled. Obviously, other users have had no issues with this product, and we have not had any support tickets complaining about anything. Therefore, as far as we know there are no problems with these PSUs. If you do not wish to use the PSU, it may be best for you to return it to your reseller whilst you only bought it 4 days ago. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 10/11/2009 12:26:07 PM] I just figured if they did let you know then maybe you would have done your own tests to either substantiate there claims or prove them to be false, I haven`t made my mind up what I`m going to yet but I do appreciate your replies and you seem to have been fairly honest in your responses. Thank you.

[SHAUN_T 10/11/2009 12:27:23 PM] Hi, thanks for your message. No problem, we`re not here to lie to you, so if you do have anymore questions or encounter any problems in the future, please let us know. Kind regards, Shaun.

10-11-2009, 08:39:53

Freak
whilst they are not lying, they are doing what all media people are trained to and only put forward arguments they appear to answer the question but are actually sidestepping. I have to say it was very interesting to read their response.

Seems that they would rather have people blown up before doing anything - which includeds tests themselves.

10-11-2009, 10:05:47

kimandsally
I would not worry you will never reach the cut out point with your rig, safe as houses mate.

10-11-2009, 10:37:33

Mul.
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Ravenheart'
Well after wondering what to do regarding this PSU, I decided to contact XFX personally and this is the entire history from my conversation with one of there technicians, over the course of yesterday and today.

[ 7/11/2009 8:02:39 PM] I have read that when tested this power supply blew up and that it was a major issue for you at the time of the review and that you were looking into it! The review was read on overclock3d.net and has been discussed at length here hxxp://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=354173#post354173 Can someone please get back to me and let me know what has been done about the stability of this psu (to stop further potential problems) and if the problemthat caused the psu to blow up has now been rectified?

[SHAUN_T 9/11/2009 11:38:10 AM] Hi, thanks for your messages. Please note, it was the weekend when you posted your support ticket, therefore there were no technicians available to answer your question at the time. There have been many XFX PSUs sold recently and the customers have had no issues whatsoever, so there are no known faults or issues with the product. Have you tried installing it into your system? If you have any problems with it, please do let us know. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 9/11/2009 1:28:23 PM] No I haven`t tried installing it in my system as yet because of the review I read, and i`m not sure whether or not to just rma it for a refund because, now I`m not sure if they deliberately overstressed the psu or not but they are claiming that the protection that`s supposed to be built into the psu to stop it blowing up or exploding only kicked in once and the 2nd time it blew up and they claim it happened to 2 out of 2 of the psu`s, can you do me a favour and read the review via the link I posted then report back to me what you make of it so I can have some sort of peace of mind and a genuine honest opinion from yourself. The review is located here hxxp://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=354173#post354173 Thank you

[SHAUN_T 9/11/2009 2:54:49 PM] Hi, thanks for your message. Like I said, there are no common faults/batch issues etc with the XFX PSUs, we have had many customers using them without a problem. I have scanned over the review vaguely but we cannot pass much comment as we do not know the system setup etc etc. Why they had these problems I do not know, but there isnt much more I can do than to assure you there are no problems with the PSUs. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 9/11/2009 3:30:14 PM] So is it wrong to assume that you knew about this issue because they mentioned they had informed you (well not you personally) but XFX about this issue and that you knew about it, and that XFX were very concerned about this and were going to run some tests to verify there was no problem because you seem to be side stepping the issue completely instead of assuring me the units had been tested after that review and that those 2 out of 2 units must have had a fault. You have done nothing to ease my mind as you have clearly stated that there are no common faults with xfx psu`s, but how would you know if you hadn`t done some tests after that review quite clearly stated you had been informed and they had no response from xfx regarding the issue. Thanks for replying.

[SHAUN_T 10/11/2009 11:36:55 AM] Hi, thanks for your message. If there was an issue with the PSUs, for example, a batch issue they would have been recalled. Obviously, other users have had no issues with this product, and we have not had any support tickets complaining about anything. Therefore, as far as we know there are no problems with these PSUs. If you do not wish to use the PSU, it may be best for you to return it to your reseller whilst you only bought it 4 days ago. Kind regards, Shaun.

[ 10/11/2009 12:26:07 PM] I just figured if they did let you know then maybe you would have done your own tests to either substantiate there claims or prove them to be false, I haven`t made my mind up what I`m going to yet but I do appreciate your replies and you seem to have been fairly honest in your responses. Thank you.

[SHAUN_T 10/11/2009 12:27:23 PM] Hi, thanks for your message. No problem, we`re not here to lie to you, so if you do have anymore questions or encounter any problems in the future, please let us know. Kind regards, Shaun.
Frankly I am not surprised that XFX haven't received many customer complaints or particularly high fairlure rates. The Power Supply Unit should function up to and including the rated power output. Jim's testing has proven however that once pushed past it's limits the overvoltage protection is nigh on non existant and so the Black Edition 850W reacted in this way.

For a start, I can only think of a small list of typical system configurations that would even push a PSU to 850W let alone higher and so chances are (at this point in time) even those with the upper end systems aren't suffering from any problems. This however does change as time goes by. By nature, a PSU like any electronic device will degrade over time and in theory that threshold at which this unit will go bang will lower accordingly. Even if I'm being pedantic because the rate of degradation could be argued to be low, it's the principle of it. Would you expect a £160 unit to be capable of shutting itself down before it causes itself or other components damage? Based on Jim's testing it seems as though it cannot.

Whether your system commands 850W and over is irrelevent. If the unit cannot save itself once pushed too far, why settle for it? I don't for a moment find this acceptable.

13-11-2009, 23:20:23

RSC08
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Mul.'
(...)

Whether your system commands 850W and over is irrelevent. If the unit cannot save itself once pushed too far, why settle for it? I don't for a moment find this acceptable.
Those were my thoughts exactly. A PSU with this kind of price tag should not have this kind of failure. It's intolerable. That's why I returned my XFX 850w (without even using it once) and brought home a Corsair HX-750.

16-11-2009, 16:27:14

kimandsally
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='RSC08'
Those were my thoughts exactly. A PSU with this kind of price tag should not have this kind of failure. It's intolerable. That's why I returned my XFX 850w (without even using it once) and brought home a Corsair HX-750.
TBH I think you did the right thing, I love my HX850

06-12-2009, 08:48:41

tonschk
I dont like the green fan , and the PSU case look strange ugly , and to be honest the modular feature is not necessary because I have a case with holes to hide the cables at the back of the mobo tray , this is the reason I bought my lovely PC Power & Cooling 910W

07-12-2009, 14:56:20

zak4994
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='tonschk'
I dont like the green fan , and the PSU case look strange ugly , and to be honest the modular feature is not necessary because I have a case with holes to hide the cables at the back of the mobo tray , this is the reason I bought my lovely PC Power & Cooling 910W
They are your own preferences mate.

I for one love the green fan, the PSU case and would love a modular PSU!

07-12-2009, 15:14:08

alexhull24
I think XFX are clearly denying the issue until enough genuine end-users have or complain about this problem, which could be a while.

It's a shame, as the PSU appears to be very good except for that, and the styling is different, and would undoubtedly sell well in the enthusiast market.

What would be best for XFX at this point would be for them to acknowledge the issue and offer customers an RMA for a revised model (if indeed one has been made) if they wish. This would save their reputation (in this new field to them) somewhat, and perhaps they will produce some more good quality PSUs in the future, instead of being forced out the market for a small issue. More competition is usually a good thing for us customers.

As it stands, I feel like the company is burying their head in the sand somewhat and sidestepping the issue as already said. This is pretty much what I would expect from a big company of their type, but they have an opportunity to now prove us wrong.

I do feel that the tech support chap was being honest though. As far as he knows there probably never was an issue brought to his attention, and he was just doing his job (correctly!).

All in all, I wouldn't buy one until this is addressed or recognised, as it gives me little faith in the brand, or indeed the RMA procedure (vital with PSUs in my experience). Swap it for a Corsair and you won't be disappointed (and I say that after having two fail on me, but that's a different story).

29-03-2013, 15:27:38

Apercus
Thank you TTL/OC3D,
can't say it enough. This was a very important review for me and I suspect many others who were considering purchasing this PSU. While I'm disappointed about the fail. I'd much rather discover it this way. I hope XFX will take a long look in the mirror and decide to resolve this matter. Although, judging by their correspondence it doesn't look hopeful. Thanks again for this piece Tom and for all you do to keep us all informed.

Apercus out!!

29-03-2013, 15:50:07

F-alienware
Holy four years late Batman.

29-03-2013, 16:42:31

Apercus
Hehehe, I'm not listed as a noob for nothing Yeah I know, but I was shopping for a PSU poised to buy the XFX, and linked to this review. Had to give Tom his props you know 

29-03-2013, 18:30:29

Chuckers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apercus View Post
Hehehe, I'm not listed as a noob for nothing Yeah I know, but I was shopping for a PSU poised to buy the XFX, and linked to this review. Had to give Tom his props you know 
Just so you know, the new XFX Pro series are very good (rebranded Seasonics) so don't confuse them with these old models from a few years ago and let that put you off the Pro series because you wont be disappointed with the new range!

29-03-2013, 21:26:03

Apercus
Thanks Chuckers, I have the XFX P1-850B-BEFX 850W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply on hold at Newegg, great price to $101.00 after 20% discount and $15.00 rebate. So It's either that or the OCZ Z Series OCZZ850M 850W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply about $80.00 after $30.00 rebate and $30.00 promo. Great prices just when I need a power supply. I just need to choose one. I think Iíll go with the OCZ. Unless There is a reason I'm not aware of to reconsider. Thanks for all the Info though.

30-03-2013, 06:50:21

Chuckers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apercus View Post
Thanks Chuckers, I have the XFX P1-850B-BEFX 850W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Full Modular Active PFC Power Supply on hold at Newegg, great price to $101.00 after 20% discount and $15.00 rebate. So It's either that or the OCZ Z Series OCZZ850M 850W 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply about $80.00 after $30.00 rebate and $30.00 promo. Great prices just when I need a power supply. I just need to choose one. I think Iíll go with the OCZ. Unless There is a reason I'm not aware of to reconsider. Thanks for all the Info though.
Go for the XFX, they are much better quality than the OCZ units. It's not to say that every OCZ unit is bad it's just alot of their products are poor quality and dont have the longevity that the Seasonic XFX's have so people tend to steer clear of OCZ as a whole.

(I know I have an OCZ psu in my sig but I'm changing that in the next week or so! )

30-03-2013, 14:31:18

Apercus
Hi Chuckers,
So do I my OCZ is a 650w, but thanks to all the good advice Iíll be swapping mine out for the XFX PRO850w at a great price.

Thanks again.
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