Bigfoot Networks Killer NIC & Killer K1 Network Cards

Software Drivers & Testing Methodology

Killer NIC Drivers

Installing the Killer NIC drivers on our Windows XP SP2 test machine proved extremely easy. Simply insert the card, install the drivers and away you go. The installer even updates the card to the latest firmware available from Killer NIC's site during the install.

I also tried installing the Killer K1 on Windows 2003 Server (x64), but unfortunately in this instance the latest x64 drivers from Killer NIC's website caused the server to loose all network connectivity and even froze Windows startup subsequent reboots.

Killer NIC Drivers

The main menu provides you with the ability to flip between "Gaming" and general use "Application" mode as well as tweaking some of it's more advanced features. Also included is the ability to increasing your ping and change the LED light sequence on the underside of the card.

Killer NIC Drivers Killer NIC Drivers

Both of these pages are probably best left well alone by the average user. I certainly had very little idea of the impact on changing any of the presets, but I suppose if you are into tweaking, you could possibly further increase the performance of the card by adjusting the settings and running benchmarks.


Test PC Configuration

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6700 @ 3.6ghz
Motherboard: Asus Commando P965
Memory: Patriot PC2-8500 2GB DDR2
Graphics: ATI Radeon X1950Pro
Network: Marvell Yukon 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit (Onboard)
OS: Windows XP SP2 (x32)



Testing Methodology

The hardest part of this review by far was finding a way to produce a fair comparision of the Killer NIC against the onboard NIC in our test PC. Reviews we've seen of this card in magazines have used two identical machines connected to the same network, playing the same game on the same server at the same time. Although a good idea, these reviews don't take into consideration the massive difference in FPS that two players at different positions in the game map, or with different numbers of other players on the screen could have on the overall result.

For this reason, the results over the following page were produced in the following conditions:

Counter:Strike Source & F.E.A.R
• Private CS:S / F.E.A.R server configured on Overclock3D Dual Xeon 3.6ghz server.
• Server located at IDNet racks in Redbus co-location center, London.
• Client PC connectivity via IDNet ADSL (6mb) broadband. Tracert 2 hops from server.
• No other players on server to prevent any variance in results due to increased or reduced server bandwidth associated with fluctuating number of players in game.
• Tests of Killer NIC and Onboard NIC produced within 30 minutes of each other and with server network load being checked beforehand using BWMonitor to ensure consistency.
• FRAPS configured to take screenshots every 30 seconds for a total of 30 minutes with the server ping and FPS information in every screenshot.
• Player takes a consistent route around the map for the entire 30 minutes.


As the above tests for CS:S and F.E.A.R were under strict testing procedures we decided to offset these results against some random gameplay on a random public server using Quake 4:

Quake 4
Random Quake 4 Internet server.
Client PC connectivity via IDNet ADSL (6mb) broadband.
Tests of Killer NIC and Onboard NIC produced within 30 minutes of each other.
FRAPS configured to take screenshots every 30 seconds for a total of 30 minutes with the server ping and FPS information in screenshots.
Player takes a consistent route around the map for the entire 30 minutes, but also engages with other players.
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Most Recent Comments

21-03-2007, 15:04:33

JN
"Today we've been given the opportunity to take a look at Bigfoot Network's "Killer NIC" and "Killer K1" Gaming Network Cards. With promises of lower pings and increased FPS though its 'LLR' technology, will these card live up to their $180+ price tag."

Read the full review.

21-03-2007, 15:50:47

nunzio
Well its a sweet review.

21-03-2007, 16:08:39

Luffy
Great review and technology insight.

Nice one XMS

21-03-2007, 16:25:41

equk
I just looked thru the graphs and laughed at their promo stuff at the beginning. Not sure how it is an innovation?

The idea of sharing the load is ok (3years ago), but the fps test doesn't prove anything (in that it is a graph over time periods). The same with the ping graphs. Altho neither shows a significant difference

The 1ms 'gained' could be due to other factors. (avg gain or loss. 0.9ms)

The same with the fps. (avg gain. 5.6fps)

'Sharing the load' on a dual core system isn't really going to make much difference tbh also what happened to all the software stuff they have been boasting about.

I know I sound like I'm being aggressive or whatever but at the end of the day it's a overpriced NIC (10x the normal price?) with a router spec processor on it (based on routers than can be had for £8-£45).

One thing the tests do prove is that their own marketing tests were probably done on a low spec system.

Not sure how it ends with 70%

Still a good review, even if it is more like an advert (Given the masses of marketing info)

21-03-2007, 16:30:06

FragTek
Great review, stupid piece of hardware.

21-03-2007, 16:31:32

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
Great review,stupid piece of hardware.
idd haha

glad someone agrees

21-03-2007, 16:46:04

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
I just looked thru the graphs and laughed at their promo stuff at the beginning. Not sure how it is an innovation?
The reason the card got an innovation award is literally because the first product of its type that has been brought to the market. Sure there are server class nic's that may do a similar thing, but still Bigfoot have put a lot of work into the card regardless whether it pays off on a high spec system or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

'Sharing the load' on a dual core system isn't really going to make much difference tbh also what happened to all the software stuff they have been boasting about.
Agreed. A large portion of the Killer NIC technology will make very little difference to a Dual core system (pretty much as seen in the graphs).

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

I know I sound like I'm being aggressive or whatever but at the end of the day it's a overpriced NIC (10x the normal price?) with a router spec processor on it (based on routers than can be had for £8-£45).

One thing the tests do prove is that their own marketing tests were probably done on a low spec system.
Agreed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

Not sure how it ends with 70%
The final score was weighted in exactly the same way as all other reviews on OC3D. It just happens that it done exceptionally well in Presentation that it bumped up the score above the ~60% (but still presentation only counts for 10% total, Pricing 30%, Performance 60%).

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

Still a good review, even if it is more like an advert (Given the masses of marketing info)
Thanks, and I'm disappointed you found it to be like an advert. I was merely explaining the technology behind the card. I'd hope that readers who have never encountered the Killer NIC before may find it useful.

21-03-2007, 17:07:08

equk
New Advert:

Before:


(nice grammar - to keeping up)



After:

21-03-2007, 18:08:35

NickS
LOL nice one equk.

21-03-2007, 20:15:49

Allsorts
Thanks for the review XMS, I've been waiting patiently ever since your "Need your help on this next one..." thread! I think you hit it on the head when you said "[is] spending ~$200 on a network card ... the most cost effective way of gaining an FPS increase?" I guess most people would get more bang-per-buck from more RAM, better CPU, GPU or even ISP.

Interestingly, the topmost screenshot on page 4 of your review shows an option menu with a 'Promiscuous Mode: Disabled' setting. Is the other setting 'Sven-Göran Eriksson' by any chance?

21-03-2007, 20:17:26

FarFarAway
I have to say that saying it's an advert is actually pretty offensive. We would never look at a product review as a way of advertising for a company. We are fully independent and rate a product as we see it.

The pictures have to be put in to show what Killer say it does but when you read the graphs they tell their own story.

The Killer card does what a server class NIC does (but for gaming, not HTTP/IMAP/POP etc), for less money.

However: is it worth the money? I don't think so

22-03-2007, 08:42:27

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
I have to say that saying it's an advert is actually pretty offensive.
soz, I didn't mean to offend or anything. I just thought the first page in particular had so much promo stuff on it (written by bigfoot networks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
The Killer card does what a server class NIC does (but for gaming, not HTTP/IMAP/POP etc), for less money.
I thought most (if not all) server NIC's ran on 64-bit PCI and PCI-X BUS's (66mhz to 133mhz 32bit and 33mhz 64bit)

Even with some newer server NIC's running on PCI-X 2.0.

PCI-X 2.0 Mode II and PCI 2.3 compliant 64 bit, 266 MHz (133 MHz DDR) host interface

22-03-2007, 09:03:51

equk
The more of bigfoot networks advertising I read, the more I think they are playing on dumb users to buy their product. A lot of it could be seen as false advertising aswell.



1. Who's computer grinds to a halt when downloading

2. It might not slow down the computer but it will slow down the network

3. You gain nothing from using it and instead are limiting youself to the USB storage

A lot of 'their' apps are merely versions of scripts/apps that have been around on linux routers and systems for years.

"FN Firewall" - IPTables firewall

"PingThrottle™" - IPTables network throttling

The Killer NIC runs a "highly optimized" embedded Linux OS based on a 2.6.16 kernel. It comes with a Windows utility that lets users open a Linux shell on the card, where busybox provides a subset of normal Linux system commands.

Since it is based on Linux, the Killer NIC's OS is open source



Where is the source code can't see it on their website.

22-03-2007, 09:05:10

FarFarAway
But what I'm saying is that in order to prioritise UDP your looking at a high-end server NIC

Hell i'm not justifying the price, just saying that other similar solutions cost a lot more.

And if you review a company's product then you tend to have to take what they say about it. I would hardly class it as advertising and to say that to an independent review site is offensive. But I digress.

It's a great idea, but perhaps not needed unless you have stacks of money and want that tiny FPS and ping advantage.

Also "normal" people don't use Linux router systems.

And if you think advertising isn't for the stupid masses then I dunno who you think it's for

22-03-2007, 09:23:00

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
Also "normal" people don't use Linux router systems.
really?

a few linux routers:

Netgear/DG834G

Netgear/DG834GT

Netgear/DG834Gv3

ZyXEL/Prestige 660HW-61

ZyXEL/Prestige 660M-67

ZyXEL/Prestige 660R-61C

Linksys/WRT54G

Linksys/WRT54GS

Linksys/WRT54GC

Linksys/WRT54GX

Linksys/WAG54G

Linksys/WAG54GS

Belkin/F5D7130

Belkin/F5D7230

Asus/WL500G

Asus/WL500B

Asus/WL300G

Buffalo WHR-G54S, WHR-HP-G54, WZR-HP-G54, and WZR-RS-G54

ASUS WL500G Deluxe, Premium & Original

22-03-2007, 09:24:25

nunzio
So really.. this NIC gives you nothing that a good router would. besides the low cpu usage

22-03-2007, 09:38:17

FragTek
On a happy side-note I just picked up a $200 Intel dual-port PCI NIC for $20 refurbed, w00t!

Wonder if it does a better job than the Killer, we shall see, muahaha.

22-03-2007, 09:38:49

FarFarAway
Aye but they don't configure them properly is what I meant. I'm quite aware that some routers run on Linux.

I'm not arguing any more, the review says it all perfectly imo

22-03-2007, 09:44:03

nunzio
Indeed the review has all the info you would need to not go and buy the NIC Hopefully they will moving it over to PCI-e and release the source code, as per GPL.

22-03-2007, 09:52:32

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
Aye but they don't configure them properly is what I meant.
In regards to the KillerNIC's "FN Firewall", from looking at it, it is a pre-configured firewall. Much the same as a standard router is. Probably using a SPI script for IPTables (the same as £8 routers).

I've not seen any screenshots of a frontend to the "FN Firewall" at all.

As for properly configuring linux router firewalls, most of them provide good options in the web interface for port forwarding, QoS (including network throttling) & have a SPI firewall built in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
On a happy side-note I just picked up a $200 Intel dual-port PCI NIC for $20 refurbed, w00t!

Wonder if it does a better job than the Killer, we shall see, muahaha.
lol nice

22-03-2007, 10:40:59

davebfn
Greetings from Bigfoot Networks!

First, I wanted to thank XMS and the Overclock3d team for completing our first UK review of the Killer NIC. We thought it was a fair, concise, and constructive piece of work; and greatly appreciate the effort that went into writing it.

As a Bigfoot employee that works closely with all departments in our company, I thought I'd jump on and respond to a few of the comments we've seen, as well as make myself available for any questions you all may have about the Killer.

I guess we can start with some of the comments by Equk :

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
The more of bigfoot networks advertising I read, the more I think they are playing on dumb users to buy their product. A lot of it could be seen as false advertising aswell.
Playing on dumb users? Actually, users such as yourself are generally our target market...tech savvy, understand innovation, appreciate off-loading, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

1. Who's computer grinds to a halt when downloading

2. It might not slow down the computer but it will slow down the network

3. You gain nothing from using it and instead are limiting youself to the USB storage
1. Have you ever tried gaming while downloading bit torrents? The entire reason we wrote FN Torrent was to allow gamers to use their computer for more than just one thing at a time. I ask you to load up your favorite torrent program with 40 torrents and try to play your favorite game....if all of them are running / seeding, you'll probably have a tough time getting a kill. In reality, the QoS built into the card will always prioritize your gaming (UDP) packets both inbound and outbound, so any download will not interfere with your gaming.

2. True, if you exceed the bandwidth allotted by your ISP, it certainly would slow down the network. Our FN Torrent has a configurable bandwidth throttle to help prevent this from happening.

3. If by gain nothing, you mean giving yourself the ability to download torrents while gaming using zero host CPU resources, then you are correct. I don't really understand the 'limit yoursself to USB storage' comment, the same SATA hard drive in your computer can be placed into a USB drive case...or there are affordable stand-alone USB storage solutions out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

A lot of 'their' apps are merely versions of scripts/apps that have been around on linux routers and systems for years.

"FN Firewall" - IPTables firewall

"PingThrottle™" - IPTables network throttling
Yes! You are correct, and that is what we find very exciting about the Killer NIC and it's Flexible Network Applications (FNA). With the Killer, you now have another (Linux) computer inside of your computer. Any Linux application can be ported to run on the Killer instead of your host CPU. Again, the idea is to free up CPU horsepower to run your games. We think that is 'merely' incredible, and an industry first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
Where is the source code can't see it on their website.
Which source code are you looking for? Our SDK / source is on our installation disk, I'm happy to link up the large download for it if anyone would like it.

At the end of the day, Kempez did sum it up best. This is server-class NIC technology, refined and reduced in cost for gamer consumers. It is built to combat lag, and to provide the smoothest game play possible on your computer. FNApps will continue to be released, both by Bigfoot and by open source developers, so the card continues to gain value over time. We don't know many pieces of hardware that can make that claim.

Again, we appreciate the time that Overclock3D and it's users have spent evaluating the Killer. I will monitor this thread and am happy to answer any questions you all may have.

22-03-2007, 11:26:59

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
1. Have you ever tried gaming while downloading bit torrents?
Generally I leave my downloading for night time when no one is on my network as I only have a 4mb ADSL connection.

It is normally the load on the connection that makes online gaming laggy, not the load on the pc or cpu.

I have played games offline while downloading stuff with no problems tho. It most deffinately doesn't "Grind to a halt" as on your advertisment, in fact there is next to no difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
The entire reason we wrote FN Torrent was to allow gamers to use their computer for more than just one thing at a time.
Gamers computers atm are unable to run a bittorrent client (few kb of mem) while running a game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
I ask you to load up your favorite torrent program with 40 torrents and try to play your favorite game....if all of them are running / seeding, you'll probably have a tough time getting a kill. In reality, the QoS built into the card will always prioritize your gaming (UDP) packets both inbound and outbound, so any download will not interfere with your gaming.
I generally use the QoS built into my hardware firewall/router. So gaming is already at a higher priority than bittorrent etc.

I also haven't ever downloaded 40 torrents in the whole time of having a computer I normally stick to FTP/HTTP downloading than peer2peer as I don't really like seeding stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
2. True, if you exceed the bandwidth allotted by your ISP, it certainly would slow down the network. Our FN Torrent has a configurable bandwidth throttle to help prevent this from happening.
When you say bandwidth do you mean actual throughput (something which cannot be exceeded) or do you mean the download cap on your current contract (eg: 20gb cap). If you mean the download cap, how does the NIC stop that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
3. If by gain nothing, you mean giving yourself the ability to download torrents while gaming using zero host CPU resources, then you are correct. I don't really understand the 'limit yoursself to USB storage' comment, the same SATA hard drive in your computer can be placed into a USB drive case...or there are affordable stand-alone USB storage solutions out there.
What I mean is, downloading and gaming is no hard task for the average gamer system. So you don't gain anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
Yes! You are correct, and that is what we find very exciting about the Killer NIC and it's Flexible Network Applications (FNA). With the Killer, you now have another (Linux) computer inside of your computer. Any Linux application can be ported to run on the Killer instead of your host CPU. Again, the idea is to free up CPU horsepower to run your games. We think that is 'merely' incredible, and an industry first.
The applications you could run would be very small (the Killer NIC is 333mhz with 64mb RAM & 16MB Flash?) and in that sense would not change or help the way a system performs in games very much.

The "linux system inside your system" would be a 333mhz system. Similar to the spec of a router. It is also quite fitting that you can connect via busybox.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
At the end of the day, Kempez did sum it up best. This is server-class NIC technology, refined and reduced in cost for consumers. It is built to combat lag, and to provide the smoothest game play possible on your computer. FNApps will continue to be released, both by Bigfoot and by open source developers, so the card continues to gain value over time. We don't know many pieces of hardware that can make that claim.

Again, we appreciate the time that Overclock3D and it's users have spent evaluating the Killer. I will monitor this thread and am happy to answer any questions you all may have.
I think the main thing is that a cheap router can do everything (network wise) the card can do and more (in that it will control multiple clients).

That and the cost involved means it is not really a viable solution for anyone. Whether you're a gamer or not.

In FPS terms, most games will run over 60fps. Most TFT monitors run at 60hz and so only render 60fps. So gaining 1-10fps (for £100) isn't really that much of a benefit.

I'm not sure if you have seen our other discussion on the Killer NIC in the specialtech forum.

Click here for other discussion

22-03-2007, 12:48:19

FragTek
Thanks for jumping in Dave, some good answers there.

I have a question for you on the Linux subject... Ur saying I could run a linux super pi on the Killer? That's 1337 Can the Killers CPU be overclocked if someone were to write a software based nix clock adjuster? Just thinking of possibilities... Maybe one more thing in your comp to watercool eh?

22-03-2007, 12:56:34

FarFarAway
You can OC the Killer NIC afaik

22-03-2007, 12:59:54

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
Thanks for jumping in Dave, some good answers there.

I have a question for you on the Linux subject... Ur saying I could run a linux super pi on the Killer? That's 1337 Can the Killers CPU be overclocked if someone were to write a software based nix clock adjuster? Just thinking of possibilities... Maybe one more thing in your comp to watercool eh?
haha

22-03-2007, 13:02:46

FragTek
That'd give ya all the braggin' rights eh?

"My NIC is OC'd and watercooled, is yours?" *in uber antagonizing voice*

22-03-2007, 13:10:01

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
That'd give ya all the braggin' rights eh?

"My NIC is OC'd and watercooled, is yours?" *in uber antagonizing voice*
lol

I am teh ownz0r, my NIC is watercooled and overclocked to 667mhz

22-03-2007, 13:23:27

PP Mguire
@ Dave, so your saying its easier for gamers (usualy cheap guys who have other PCs laying around) to buy this card instead of take your own free parts and make your own Linux server? Im sorry, i have a server that would do everything your talking about right now. Not only that, i wouldnt want to fill up my PCI bus on other cards when i have 2 gigabit built in ethernets on my mobo.

22-03-2007, 13:24:05

nunzio
Heh..what next? you going to run f@h on there :P

22-03-2007, 13:56:49

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='nunzio'
Heh..what next? you going to run f@h on there :P
Now there's an idea! I wonder what kinda rate it could churn WU's out at

22-03-2007, 13:59:20

FleX.overclock3d
Looks good with the packaging and card, but thats about it

22-03-2007, 20:01:35

!TIMMY!
Well with all said and done, I do like the idea of a gaming network card, but it is far to expensive. It is only for the people with the best ISP, PC etc and hair doo really. Id rather spend the £ on fixing my PC cause im on this crappy P3 450mHz atm lol.

23-03-2007, 08:34:17

equk
I guess it's fair to say no one will be buying one of these cards then

Where did dave from bigfoot networks go?

23-03-2007, 12:35:27

PP Mguire
Not to mention, any server with the same specs (Including a modded Xbox) can do the same thing, cept better cause it has its own HD and its completely out of your PC not taking up any bandwidth. 40 torrents? Bam, my server does it. Dedicated game? Bam, server does it and dosent lag friends. Anything they say this card can do, a cheap server with the same specs can do better for the price of the cheap crap you got layin around. Thats my legit reason why i wouldnt buy it, and its pointless to have.

24-03-2007, 12:47:42

equk
Damn I was hoping bigfoot networks would maybe follow up our questions etc

Rather than just posting based on the mis-leading advertising guess dave was a 1post wonder

24-03-2007, 13:01:26

FarFarAway
Or he doesn't work at the weekend?

24-03-2007, 13:05:01

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Kempez'
Or he doesn't work at the weekend?
He posted on the 22nd and it's the 24th now

24-03-2007, 13:21:14

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
He posted on the 22nd and it's the 24th now
Your point being?

24-03-2007, 13:27:11

WC Annihilus
Aye, really, you should be patient. If it gets to about a week before he replies, then I would start wondering

Anyways... too expensive for me. I'm perfectly happy with onboard

24-03-2007, 13:28:06

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='XMS'
Your point being?
My point being, I'm not asking for him to answer in the weekend & he could've answered yesterday or even the day before

Altho admittedly I did think it was posted earlier in the week when I first posted my reply. Despite that I'm still thinking there will be no more replies to the post by bigfoot networks.

24-03-2007, 13:44:28

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
My point being, I'm not asking for him to answer in the weekend & he could've answered yesterday or even the day before

Altho admittedly I did think it was posted earlier in the week when I first posted my reply. Despite that I'm still thinking there will be no more replies to the post by bigfoot networks.
I'm certain that he's got much more important things to do than argue with people who have already made their mind up about the product. Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think it's about time you let some other people have their say as I personally feel you are over-stressing your one.

Besides I'm not quite sure what you are expecting him to say? Do you want to come back and tell you he's decided that you are right, and from now on Bigfoot Networks are only going to sell £8 routers?

24-03-2007, 14:03:45

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='XMS'
Besides I'm not quite sure what you are expecting him to say? Do you want to come back and tell you he's decided that you are right, and from now on Bigfoot Networks are only going to sell £8 routers?
No, I just thought from how he hyped up certain things that I was missing something.

Like the exceeding bandwidth thing

Also the linux programs or 'FNApps' (as bigfoot call them). As there are only 2 apps on the site atm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
As a Bigfoot employee that works closely with all departments in our company, I thought I'd jump on and respond to a few of the comments we've seen, as well as make myself available for any questions you all may have about the Killer.

24-03-2007, 14:27:53

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
No, I just thought from how he hyped up certain things that I was missing something.

Like the exceeding bandwidth thing
If you're referring to this question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

When you say bandwidth do you mean actual throughput (something which cannot be exceeded) or do you mean the download cap on your current contract (eg: 20gb cap). If you mean the download cap, how does the NIC stop that?
I think you already know the answer. You don't strike me as the kind of person who would actually think that a network card could bypass your ISP's transfer cap.

And when he says bandwidth, I think it would be fair to assume that he means what he said.

24-03-2007, 15:29:48

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='XMS'
If you're referring to this question:

I think you already know the answer. You don't strike me as the kind of person who would actually think that a network card could bypass your ISP's transfer cap.

And when he says bandwidth, I think it would be fair to assume that he means what he said.
Well I think what I said in my reply to that post explains what I thought about it.

A NIC has no control over a ISP's download cap or indeed the throughput of the line. Altho it could have a bandwidth monitor to monitor the amount of bandwidth used using FNApps

Altho obviously if you are on a network with more than one client this wouldn't be effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='davebfn'
2. True, if you exceed the bandwidth allotted by your ISP, it certainly would slow down the network. Our FN Torrent has a configurable bandwidth throttle to help prevent this from happening.
That's what he said

24-03-2007, 15:45:37

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='XMS'
but I think it's about time you let some other people have their say as I personally feel you are over-stressing your one.
Other people have had their say?

They have also asked questions, which is why I commented that bigfoot networks hadn't replied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
I have a question for you on the Linux subject... Ur saying I could run a linux super pi on the Killer?
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
@ Dave, so your saying its easier for gamers (usualy cheap guys who have other PCs laying around) to buy this card instead of take your own free parts and make your own Linux server?

24-03-2007, 15:54:32

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
Well I think what I said in my reply to that post explains what I thought about it.
So why drag it out any more?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

A NIC has no control over a ISP's download cap or indeed the throughput of the line.
So why did you ask?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

Altho it could have a bandwidth monitor to monitor the amount of bandwidth used using FNApps
What's that got to do with anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'

Altho obviously if you are on a network with more than one client this wouldn't be effective.
Unless the NIC was in a machine with ICS. But yet again I don't see what that's got to do with anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='equk'
Other people have had their say?

They have also asked questions, which is why I commented that bigfoot networks hadn't replied.
Bigfoot Networks aren't under any kind of SLA with us so I can't see why you'd EXPECT them to respond within 1 day.

I think you've had more than your say. If anybody has anything constructive to add to the thread, please feel free, but this excludes you eq.

24-03-2007, 16:44:53

JN
Thread cleaned. I'm sure that if Dave feels there are any points raised above that need answering he will post.

25-03-2007, 08:55:33

mrapoc
Nice to see a representative of the company on here. Seems a good company and I look forward to more products from yourselves, alas this product isn't really in my spending budget, I would consider it if I did suffer/need any features that this card addresses. Love the design tho!

25-03-2007, 09:13:09

Dav0s
i wont get majorly involved in the argument about the review, but equk, i think it has all the marketing adverts in there because this is the first product of its kind, and what it does needs to be explained. I personally found the images very helpful (im lazy, pictures amuse me), and everything you would expect from an OC3D review is still there, jus in addition to the explanation about what the killer NIC CLAIMS to do

25-03-2007, 11:03:27

!TIMMY!
It seems that this product is priced to high for people to buy, but im sure after the 'this is the 1st of it's kind' and some competition comes in then the price of this technology will drop, as I know I would be interested in something like this, but not for this price.

@ XMS in ur Avitar, the cat looks like hes errr 'pleasuring that rifle'.

@ Dav0s how do the pigs not get any bigger when they eat a whole other pig?

25-03-2007, 12:56:31

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='!TIMMY!'

@ XMS in ur Avitar, the cat looks like hes errr 'pleasuring that rifle'.
Look after your rifle, and your rifle will look after you tbh

25-03-2007, 15:29:25

PP Mguire
TBH i think its just a fancy network card that can support Linux lol. Nothing like say a PhysX card which actualy could do something.

25-03-2007, 22:51:47

a1651
When it was announced I totally wanted one. Now, not so much

Excellent review. Saved me some money, but maybe with some evolution this product could be worth owning.

26-03-2007, 08:18:40

FragTek
Here's what I would need to see on this card for me to justify spending this amount of money on a NIC:

1.) Dual Ethernet Ports w/ hardware accelerated load balancing

2.) Firewire 400/800 and eSATA ports on back of card in addition to USB

3.) Internal SATAII ports

With those things, u might spark my interest at that price.

26-03-2007, 08:21:31

JN
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
Here's what I would need to see on this card for me to justify spending this amount of money on a NIC:

1.) Dual Ethernet Ports w/ hardware accelerated load balancing

2.) Firewire 400/800 and eSATA ports on back of card in addition to USB

3.) Internal SATAII ports

With those things, u might spark my interest at that price.
Yeah that would make it rather sexy. I reckon #1 should be easily achievable considering the chipset can support dual ethernet, as for SATA i'm not sure if the chipset supports it in its current state.

26-03-2007, 08:24:19

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='XMS'
Yeah that would make it rather sexy. I reckon #1 should be easily achievable considering the chipset can support dual ethernet, as for SATA i'm not sure if the chipset supports it in its current state.
They could slap on a SATA controller chip, which are cheap as chips, and voila!

26-03-2007, 12:20:07

PP Mguire
Then your going back to the old school all in one cards that sucked. Like the old sound/modem/IDE cards.

26-03-2007, 12:31:53

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
Then your going back to the old school all in one cards that sucked. Like the old sound/modem/IDE cards.
No not really, it's primary use would be as a NIC. No one would go out and buy it as a SATA adapter, or an extra USB port, or to add firewire to their computer. These would just be added benefits of owning a Killer NIC, and greatly help justify the outrageous price. And we're talking about things that directly relate to what the NIC is currently capable of. I'm not talking about adding onboard sound, video, or something completely out of line with its capabilities.

26-03-2007, 13:35:57

PP Mguire
Maybe instead of trying to add things to justify buying it for its price, they should just bring down the price and add a second port? I mean all it IS is an NIC still with a fancy look.

26-03-2007, 13:40:47

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
Maybe instead of trying to add things to justify buying it for its price, they should just bring down the price and add a second port? I mean all it IS is an NIC still with a fancy look.
Or that Cut $175-200 off of the price and I might take a look at it.

26-03-2007, 14:02:27

!TIMMY!
rofl true that!

26-03-2007, 14:04:56

FragTek
I wouldn't be willing to pay over 50 bux on this card, it's just not worth it any way you slice it. I think people buy it just for the "bling" factor and to extend their e-pen15 a few inches.

26-03-2007, 14:35:28

equk
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
Maybe instead of trying to add things to justify buying it for its price, they should just bring down the price and add a second port? I mean all it IS is an NIC still with a fancy look.
idd

Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
I think people buy it just for the "bling" factor and to extend their e-pen15 a few inches.
idd

I think some of the theory behind it is good (LLR, even tho in practice it makes little difference).

The main thing holding it back is value for money & that almost every gamers mobo has 1 or even 2 gigabit NIC's built on.

26-03-2007, 16:21:54

PP Mguire
Yea seriously. Mine has 2gigabit onboard so why would i need another 2? I could put it in my server to "bling" it up a bit i guess.

26-03-2007, 16:48:02

Phnom_Penh
I agree 100% with everything equk has said so far. I think comparing the Killer to a decent card like a 3Com 3C905C would also be a good idea, especially with offloading enabled in the os.

Someone mentioned that ordinary users don't have a linux router or don't set it up properly... but then again, no ordinary user in their right mind would pay $180 for a nic.

26-03-2007, 17:51:20

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
Yea seriously. Mine has 2gigabit onboard so why would i need another 2? I could put it in my server to "bling" it up a bit i guess.
My reasoning behind the second port is this... Not all motherboards have dual onboard NIC's, even high end boards, mine being a perfect example.

I will be running dual modems in to my new dual port NIC and using my onboard NIC as the uplink to my routers WAN port. This way I can do load balancing on my PC and then have the benefit shared between all of the computers on my network.

Dual port NIC's FTW.

This card is all bling and no zing

26-03-2007, 18:31:01

!TIMMY!
Whats the best affordable PCI NIC apart from the killer?

26-03-2007, 18:46:04

Dav0s

26-03-2007, 18:51:54

!TIMMY!
I like the big e on the extra value, was wondering what is the killers competition?

26-03-2007, 18:59:18

mVp24
Tbh, I don't see the point in this card.

It uses a PCI slot, its expensive, and it really provides me no benefits.

I can easily game with an uncapped bitorrent on and still ping ~60-80 in CS.

Tbh, I do think this is more of a gimmick.

Great review btw.

27-03-2007, 01:04:12

PP Mguire
i completely agree with Vader and is what i was saying. With everything they are claiming this card will make an advantage for my server can do better for nothing. (parts i had laying around). Not only that, i DO have dual NICs on my board so yea no need. As for not having dual NICs onboard im sure you can find a cheaper card with 2 NICs or just get 2 cheap network cards.

27-03-2007, 07:43:12

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='PP Mguire'
As for not having dual NICs onboard im sure you can find a cheaper card with 2 NICs or just get 2 cheap network cards.
Wrong. The least expensive PCI dual port NIC is made by Intel and is currently EOL (as of like 2005 I believe) which means it's very hard to find. New they sell for $200-$250. I luckily found one place on the internet that seems to have an abundance of them and sell them new for $69 and refurbed for $20 (I bought 2 of the refurbed models). If you can't find one of the PCI Intel cards the only thing you are going to find is PCI-X based. As far as buying a pair of cheap single NIC's, nope, not on todays boards with the limited number of PCI slots... Such as my board, only 2 PCI slots, one is already filled by my PhysX card, and I could easily already have the other filled with a sound card.

Killer would own a bigger market share if they were the only ones with a dual port PCI based NIC, and with the kind of money they're chargin' for that sucker I don't see why this would be a problem.

27-03-2007, 09:39:26

!TIMMY!
its a bit late now, so hopefully they will bring one out soon for a reasonable price.

27-03-2007, 10:42:02

Phnom_Penh
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
If you can't find one of the PCI Intel cards the only thing you are going to find is PCI-X based.
It's important to note that there's absolutely no point in a dual gigabit pci card, as it would murder the pci bus (even single port cards give it a run for its money), wheras PCI-X is a hell of a lot faster and can handle it.

27-03-2007, 10:45:36

FragTek
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='Phnom_Penh'
It's important to note that there's absolutely no point in a dual gigabit pci card, as it would murder the pci bus (even single port cards give it a run for its money), wheras PCI-X is a hell of a lot faster and can handle it.
Thus the reason Intel decided to EOL it's PCI-based card and upgraded it to a PCI-X platform, but there is STILL a market for a PCI dual port NIC which needs to be filled. Hence myself needing one, there's a market for it as I'm sure I'm not the only one needing a dual port NIC which uses PCI. Now a PCI-E dual port NIC would be about the greatest thing since sliced bread, use up some of these seemingly useless slots on my mobo.

27-03-2007, 10:47:09

nunzio
there will always be a market for this. Most hardware based firewalls only have pci, and not pci-x. Well cisco ones do.

27-03-2007, 10:50:01

Phnom_Penh
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
Thus the reason Intel decided to EOL it's PCI-based card and upgraded it to a PCI-X platform, but there is STILL a market for a PCI dual port NIC which needs to be filled. Hence myself needing one, there's a market for it as I'm sure I'm not the only one needing a dual port NIC which uses PCI. Now a PCI-E dual port NIC would be about the greatest thing since sliced bread, use up some of these seemingly useless slots on my mobo.
Intel's expi9402pt? (£90 over here lol).

Onboard gigabit's kinda filled the gap in the pci market. It usually bypasses the pci bus and goes straight into the chipset avoiding the bottle neck.

27-03-2007, 10:55:44

FragTek
Yeah, a bit expensive as it's about the same price over here $175-200. I guess I really fail to see where NIC's incur that much cost, same with the Killer? So you can buy single port NIC's for $5, but that extra port justifies a price jump of $175? WTH? And I would assume that the Killer's CPU is probably powerful enough to handle the second port without problems. This would be a good time for Killer to come answer some more questions

27-03-2007, 10:58:02

Phnom_Penh
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
Yeah, a bit expensive as it's about the same price over here $175-200. I guess I really fail to see where NIC's incur that much cost, same with the Killer? So you can buy single port NIC's for $5, but that extra port justifies a price jump of $175? WTH?
The intel's expensive because it's a new product and it's going to have demand. The Killer.... because Bigfoot have an overblown self efficacy?

27-03-2007, 10:58:36

nunzio
its the technology of it. Most $5 NIC's are cheap, where as server NICs like intel or boardcom have the TCP offload engine, or teaming.

28-03-2007, 13:20:02

FragTek
w00t Phnom, I just found a used OEM expi9402pt on eBay for $65 and picked it up Bidding on 2 more cable modems now too, w00tage!

28-03-2007, 14:30:05

PP Mguire

Thus the reason Intel decided to EOL it's PCI-based card and upgraded it to a PCI-X platform, but there is STILL a market for a PCI dual port NIC which needs to be filled. Hence myself needing one, there's a market for it as I'm sure I'm not the only one needing a dual port NIC which uses PCI. Now a PCI-E dual port NIC would be about the greatest thing since sliced bread, use up some of these seemingly useless slots on my mobo.

Now your talking. But your board SHOULD have one gigabit ethernet port right? Just get another gigabit card and use that extra PCI slot.

28-03-2007, 14:41:24

Joe
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
w00t Phnom, I just found a used OEM expi9402pt on eBay for $65 and picked it up Bidding on 2 more cable modems now too, w00tage!
Great news Fraggles .. i take it they are Moto Surfboards/Techie friendly

Next week on OCN: Frag opens up a hosting company and the RIAA Move in next door

28-03-2007, 17:41:21

Toxcity
I read the reveiw and I must say, im not impressed.

Nice review, good read but the "NPU" is pants...

28-03-2007, 17:43:52

Phnom_Penh
Quote:
Originally Posted by name='FragTek'
w00t Phnom, I just found a used OEM expi9402pt on eBay for $65 and picked it up Bidding on 2 more cable modems now too, w00tage!
Good stuff! .

21-10-2008, 06:12:05

georgezilla
Nice review.

One thing ...

A piece of hardware such as this will not have much effect on your online gaming ping times by itself. It can't.

Ping times/lag are a function of the network you are on as a whole. And you only have control over very little of it.

Once it has left your network it is out of your hands.

You want low "online" gaming ping times?

Here's what you have to do.

1) Get the fastest NIC you can afford, Gigabit etc. Fiber optics is good. Then get a second one and install the both of them.

In Windows you can "bridge" the two of them and in effect double you connection speed. But ONLY on you local network.

In Linux/Unix you can use "bonding" to accomplish the same thing. Mac users? Don't have a clue, so good luck.

2) Get a network switch that matches you new NICs.

3) Make sure that the cables that you connect your computer to your network are "top of the line". Gold connectors, etc.

4) Pay an arm and a leg for as fast an internet connection as you can. Anything as fast as YOUR network hardware is good.

Faster then it is, is better.

5) Hope that you are really getting the bandwidth you are paying for. Remember that most bandwidth is measured in bits, not bytes. Providers have been known to stretch the truth when they tell you what speeds you are getting/paying for.

And last but not least, if you beleave in such things ...

Pray that the server has at least as good networking/bandwidth as you. That there are not to many hops between you and the server. That the weather is good everywhere between you and the server. And that about another 100 things that you have no control over, go your way.

On a local network, such as a LAN Party, it can help. A bit. Anything that reduces the amount of work on you system can help. Like an FPU, or a GPU reduces the load on your CPU. Like a faster FSB or more memory. Multi-processors or multi-core processors. Can and will help just as much.

Sorry people.

But there is one thing that hardware like this does, ok there are two.

The first is it looks soooooooo cool. Second and most importantly, is the physic value. At your local LAN Party, IF your buddies think that this new NIC CAN or WILL give you an advantage over them, it has. Not it WILL give you an advantage, it HAS.

So show it off. Brag about what the maker says about it. Then go and frag their sorry butts. They deserve it. And so do you.

George
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