nVidias latest card a little out of your league? Perhaps their cutdown one will satisfy your needs...

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Wow, you're really much better off getting a 5850 instead of this card

Hopefully non-reference models will enhance the cooling and provide better clock speeds. If done right this could be a winner. But the reference card looks like it's not.

silly pricing......lower it by £50 and it could sell alot.

seems non reference is been pumped out by a fair share of companys.

http://static.scan.co.uk/Images/Products/1237970-a.jpg

Something definitely afoot with ur cuda encoding.

My 9800gt can scalp an oc'd i7, by quite a factor.

£234 @ Scan atm, which is halfway there compared to the rrp. These class cards are still overpriced imo. Despite the reviews' bias towards the 480 still being the most expensive single gpu, which it hasn't been for a while now, these lower cards like the 5850 (circa £250) should really be cheaper. Especially when they've been out for a while.

Feel free to point out which card is more expensive than a GTX480 Rasta, cos the most expensive ATI offering, the 2GB 5870 Eyefinity 6, is still cheaper.

i am still goin to go for the GTX 470

http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-...E-(1600-Cores)

£394

http://www.scan.co.uk/Shop/Computer-...-E-(480-Cores)

£422 for the Eyefinity, but I was thinking £396 for the 2GB Sapphire.

Either way you cut it, which costs more ? Personally I was thinking there was nothing in it.

If you're going to pick and choose your cards I could just as easily counter with

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-X...-DL-DVI-I-HDMI

£322

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1536MB-Inno3D-GTX-480-40nm-3696MHz-GDDR5-GPU-700MHz-Shader-1401MHz-480-Cores-2x-DVI-miniHDMI

£393

Cheapest of both models that you could go and buy right this second.

So there is PLENTY in it.

Id love to see you two in some of them blow up sumo suits having a proper fight

Don't be silly, when you're wrong, you're wrong. That's the 1G version. And the point in fact, as you well know, is the statement was that the 480 is the most expensive single gpu - which it obviously isn't.

And as I stated in the previous article on the 2G 5870, it hasn't been the most expensive single gpu for a while.

Sumo suits would be great But the professional thing to do would be to either research both this and the previous 5870 article, and/or make the correction once the mistake is picked up.

The foolish thing to do is to back yourself into a corner arguing the point.

there are more points to be considered other then just the price.

Like heat, fps to the £, amount of sound the card kicks off, the amount of overclockability and lastly stability.

end of the day the 5850 bettered the 465 in most cases and for £20-30 cheaper i think

But my point is, if the card was bellow the price of a single 5850 by around £10-15 it would be a very viable card and have meaning in the market.

Well you could compare the "hit the scene price" to that of the 5850 or what it was, but that would be complicated.

Despite the downfalls of getting the 465 over the 5850, you'd still get one of these over a 5850 in so many months time despite what each of the cards has to offer ? I wouldn't myself.

The Palit and Inno cards will fall into the price your hunting, at release time I believe. They're likely to exhibit differences in the cooling, whilst retaining the same reference pcb, depending on some things I'm sure they won't talk about.

Not sure the Galaxy ones will even come out, they are working on something else, and MSI are set to take up alot of space with their offering.

So, these will hit the shelves lower priced - you gonna get one on that basis ?

Spending ~£250 on a gfx, for me, you get the type and brand you want. Not get the cheapest. £250 I don't think is cheap for a mid range, or lower-upper card.

None of the cards are cheap tbh, Nvidias just havnt come into their own yet. The Ati's have whats needed NOW ie fps and they support everything that 90% of current games require.

The Nvids will stay pretty much the same for years now where as ATI will be chasing their tale adding extra features in.

Smart money NOW for games @ £250 is the 5850 as it overclocks like stink, and is still quiet.

Not obviously at all. 5870 is 320-odd. 480 is 395-odd. How on earth isn't the 480 the most expensive single GPU? Really I'm curious to know.

If you want to get stupidly pedantic and claim that the 5870 2G Eyefinity 6 is the card to compare with then it's STILL 390-odd. And therefore the 480 is still more expensive. Albeit barely.

But the difference between the 2GB and the 1GB is tiny at best and only for those who desire 6 monitors. You can get all the performance of the 5870 for £70 less than a 480. That's all there is to it.

The foolish thing would be to argue something vehemently when you clearly are wrong. But then you're King of that aren't you.

The old 1G 5870 are 320, the new 2G 5870 (non eyefinity badged) are 390, the 480 are 390, the eyefinity labeled are more.

You can also pay upto 500 for both if you chose.

There's nothing in it. You're being silly, King of ? You wanna now tell me your dad is bigger than mine ? Come off it, your a mod ffs, well green designated anyway.

i thought the 2GB models were only vapor-x, eyefinity 6 and the matrix edition.

and there "premium cards"

You're right Ghosthud. But it's so green in them thar valleys that some people can't accept truth.

Much like proclaiming me a mod. Or Admin. Or anything at all other than a volunteer writer.

You probably saw the 'green anyway' bit, which should give yourself a sense of some dignity.

The premium cards, link removed, start at around £700+ for an 8700, which is a fine card in it's own right.

The article says the 480 is the most expensive single gpu on the planet - which it isn't. Simple as that really.

Ahhhh. I see. Sorry I didn't realise you were going to change your definition of "GPU" once you realised you lost your original argument.

Would you have been happier if I'd have put "Most expensive single GPU that isn't strictly designed for professional use or rendering farms"??

Just accept defeat and move on with your life.

*sigh* you're getting boring now.

The definition is the same through out, as is the articles'. Premium cards were raised and stoopidly validated as correct by.. ooo let's guess.

The Eyefinity 6 isn't designed for professionals or rendering farms.

Not very good at this are you ?

Right thats enough now boys.

Valid points on both sides tbh.

Dissapointed by Nvidia's offerings. I was hoping this would come in at the 5830's ideal price point (about £180 ish) and have competition there. Lack of competition means ATI can set their own price tags.

Much as I like CUDA (and am very annoyed that crossfire, eyefinity and hybrid physx won't play together) it isn't enough to make me buy a less powerful chip.

so for gaming at 1920*1080 with my system what would be better a gtx 465 or a 470 as in for performance and future proofing?

deffo not the 465 as its not great. 470 is 'ok' but is still very hot and loud

At present, unless you're planning on customizing the cooling yourself, neither of these on shelf are good purchases.

It'd be worth w8ing for the custom offerings, the reference coolers on the complete 4xx line are arse gravy. Some of the customs are a bit outlandish, but they're a whole load better.

Even with the prices falling again this weekend, the performances and oc's are there to be had, particularly if you pay attention to release notifications - but the remaining factor is the poor cooler you're going to be stuck with.

You have the noise, you turn down the fan - you turn down the fan, the average heat goes up - yada yada.

Then again, if you give 2 Fs about the noise..

i was planning on waiting on the gainward gOOd edition 470 to come out as that looks smart

The GTX465 can be unlocked to a GTX470 in a few simple steps!! clicky

Im hearing that that was a few press samples they just chucked 465 bios on dude. I dont think its possible with the retail release cards.

After further reading think you are right.

arrrr that would of been awsome

Would have been terrible without watercooling.

well yer but it would of been a cheaper alternative if it was stable etc etc

The bizarre thing is that although there are samples that are merely bios swaps (almost but not quite), it's 'allegedly' possible to, instead of 465->470, create a '467.5' if you like.

The crazy thing about the samples you can exchange bioses with, the current usage is that of the 470 - which kinda mocks the power consumption samples of the 465 reviews.

They'd have to be all the pre-shipped samples sent out to reviewers. The reference on-the-shelf versions are out.

But - although I've seen the Palit coolers not fitted to the pcb, they are actually out and available for order from most stores. As is the Gigabyte dual fan offering that I haven't seen.

Neither of these have been reviewed afaik, and their figures would be interesting. Minus the coolers, the 4xx range is breaking records, which proves to me what a stoopid department nvidia-cooling-resources actually is.

How basic is a cooler ?

I feel that more reviewers should mention not just FPS' but how smooth was the game play.

I still feel that ATI has the GPU of choice even though I've been an Nvidia fan for a long time. It's a gamers choice for those of us not wanting to lose our left nut for a new GPU.

TBH I would hazard a guess and say that the coolers Nvidia are using on the 480 would cost quite a pretty penny to have made. And they wouldn't have done that for any other reason than as a desperate attempt to reign in temps and get the cards out. I would also hazard a guess that the cooler design and attempts to tame the inefficient design was what caused the 6-7 month delays. ATI had stolen the show before they even went to press with Fermi.

I find it gobsmackingly hard to believe that people are saying things like "Fermi is fine.. so long as you water cool it". Hang on a second, how many people actually water cool their graphics cards? How many would want to? and how many would know how to?

PC modders make up a tiny TINY minority of actual PC owners. PC world, for example, exists to cater to people who want to walk in and walk out with a product they can be happy with. How could any one go out and spend what the 480 costs knowing it then needs water cooling just to get it within acceptable temps? It's just crazy.

If I was one of those and I came home and plugged a 480 into my computer I would end up returning it thinking it was broken.

In answer to your question - how basic is a cooler ? it seems that no stock looking cooler would be good enough for Fermi.

Also, seeing as I am a noob here I would like to point something out.

I am not a fanboy of any brand or any specific item. I recently brought a 280 GTX and own an 8600 GTS SLI set up. I have Noctua, Arctic, Corsair, OCZ, Asrock, Asus and so on.

I'm not a brand whore and I don't favour any particular companies - I just want the best. Sometimes the best isn't the absolute fastest, or the most expensive, or the best single core card. It's everything a computer component should be.

So if people think I am bashing on Nvidia and want to keep replying to me defending their products? fine. But you really are wasting your time. Fermi is too hot, too expensive and completely inefficient. It's not just me saying that either it's any one who isn't completely blinded when they see the green logo. I have seen people wait 7 months for DX11 and then even when they read the truth about Fermi (IE - No ICs should ever be expected to go over 90c and live very long) STILL went out and brought it. And then sat and defended the noise and heat coming out of the back of their PC.

They actually deliberately pay far more for their electricity bill just to have an Nvidia card in their machine.

Do you understand the basics of frames per second? Anything over about 27 minimum is fine. Some can see a difference in the higher figures (over 60, say) but some can't. Most of the reason people build ridiculously powered machines that can produce 100+ FPS either do it for bragging rights, longevity of their purchase (IE a machine that can run Fallout 3 at 100FPS should cover the mininums for a while to come) or because they are hyper sensitive (one in many thousands) who can actually tell a difference.

Alien

I've watched tons of youtube reviews of various GPU's and even this review mentions that game play was smooth. This is the point I'm trying to make. Many of the new GPU's have nearly the same MAX/MIN FPS while gaming. I would like more reviewers to add whether they noticed stutter or jerky rendering in games. This is a very important factor when playing FPS'.

Well I'm a little confused as to what you mean by smooth but there are so many factors in that.

CPU, ram, hard drive speeds and transfer rates, screen refresh rates and response times.

And then you even have the game itself. Some games are simply badly coded and will never be smooth no matter how good the hardware running them (see GTAIV).

I have to agree that NVIDIA is behind the curve against the newer ATI GPU's. I don't like what I see coming out of NVIDIA and think they've missed the boat. That being said I feel that both of these big players are not considering that many of the folks today are having a hard time making ends meet and by bringing out nothing but high priced GPU's isn't the answer. I don't see why many of these newer GPU's are out at all as they don't surpass their predecessors other than offering Direct X11.

This is why I mentioned a balanced PC. All these things are required when wanting a good gaming rig. I just feel that it's important to note these things when the hardware is being reviewed.

If I have 2 GPU's to be reviewed and they both have nearly the same FPS in a game but one reacts differently (better color rendering, smoother play, etc) in the test system these things might be of interest to those folks planning on buying the GPU.

I agree. Eventually they will collapse into a bucket of their own bile like Voodoo did.

What angers me the most about Nvidia is their rebranding. They did it so many times with their last gen products it was a joke. 8800GT became a 9800GT and a 9800GTX became a 250 GTS and so on. I know there were minor differences to each rebrand (a slightly higher clock or what not) but it was basically the same thing. Same goes for their mobile chips.

I don't know what goes on behind closed doors but for a company to do stuff like that is not a good sign. It's also quite worrying when they completely end production of their 200 series cards and all other cards BEFORE they even got Fermi out of the door.

Even more worrying still were their losses over the past few years. They have made a statement recently to say that the Fermi series of cards are not even really being aimed at gamers but more at graphics professionals (and not the GTX range their other range). But even that doesn't make a lot of sense because who wants something that runs so hot?

Failure rates I have yet to see on these Fermi cards. It's too early in the day. But I know a fair bit about electronics and I know that no electronic component is going to stay happy for very long at the temps Fermi hits. How many processors out there can run at 90c for prolonged periods of time?

I certainly don't want to see Nvidia go under and I am equally as pissed with ATI over the way they treat people.

In late 2009 I brought an Asus Crosshair 2. I was going to SLI my 280 but never got the chance. When it died I then wanted Crossfire but, uh oh, need a new motherboard. And the one I have now won't run SLI. It's really rather annoying and ATI just sort of got lucky by 'conning' me into having to buy a new motherboard. I will say something, though, I won't be buying either again any time soon. Next time I make the step I will go with Intel or another board maker who has the balls to make both run.

SLI, Crossfire, CUDA, PHYSX and even the defunct by ATI HAVOK are just ways to screw things up for us. Every single one of them forces us to make choices and we always end up missing out on something.

X58 does crossfire and sli......

Yeah that was what I was referring to man

Will definitely be getting that the next time I need to upgrade.

Unfortunately it's all about cash.

nVidia categorically will-not release a gpu card that spanks anything existing, and more importantly their image of what it is set to compete with, by more than... oo 10-15%.

It's nothing like the old days where you could cosy up to a brand and perhaps have an allegence with cos "they're the best !!/1123>../.ffs!" - if you still believe this concept, they have you hooked. And if you feel that anyone that disagrees with your feelings about your allegence is a member of the nazi party, you're hooked also.

Well bugger me wid fish fork (said in a nice Yorkshire accent).

Can any one say plummet like the proverbial lead balloon? Or how about Hindenburg?

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/1GB-Zotac-GTX465-40nm-3206MHz-GDDR5-GPU-607MHz-Shader-1215MHz-352-Cores-HDMI-DVI

Nvidia must be making the predicted losses on Fermi already, then. Crivens.

With the 460 due for release Im sat on the fence waiting for the 465 to be pulled. I doubt they'll make many more now. You'll probably only see them if the shops still have stock.

If it hits the magic marker (£200) it could actually be sort of worth considering I guess.

Look forward to seeing the 460 though Tom. I think Fermi will come into its own when it is released as a slower cooler card that you get some headroom with.

^^^ +1

Oh this is just excellent haha ! Nvidia must have read your review VB ROFL.

Which is basically what you said they needed to do in the review right? But what's even funnier is this.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...uron/GTX01.jpg

Which I have to say looks about ten million times better than the regurgitated 200 series coolers they were using on the 465. What's even funnier though is that it looks distinctly like the Vaporx cooler

Hey you know what? fair play. It seems they may just be FINALLY listening after all