AMD R9 290X Review

Far Cry 3

AMD R9 290X Review

Far Cry 3

Performance in Far Cry 3 is a tale of two halves. At the regular resolution it's clear that the 290X hasn't quite got the same level of performance as the nVidia GTX780, but moving up to the 2560x1440 the R9 290X gains a 5 frame advantage. Unfortunately it doesn't benefit from an overclock, and once you overclock the GTX780 it gets 7 FPS better than the regular R9 290X. Complicated, but in short the best performance is had with the nVidia card.

 

«Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 Next»

Most Recent Comments

24-10-2013, 01:37:17

tinytomlogan
http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/artic...092949340l.JPG

After reviewing the refreshed models in the updated AMD Radeon range, we finally get our hands on their latest model, the R9 290X.


Continue Reading

24-10-2013, 01:44:09

Excalabur50
What a shame like everyone else i suppose i was really hoping this card was gonna be a beast and to be let down like a lead balloon....... sigh! Lets just hope AMD get their finger out their asses and let the 3rd party vendors loose and see if they can pick them up again so it's a least a half decent card and sooner rather than later!!

24-10-2013, 02:01:20

CapitanoMal
Well Guv? Time to go get an MSI 780? Need a new card pretty badly.
Edit: or I could pull the trigger on getting one and watercooling that puppy....

24-10-2013, 02:11:56

kittysniper
Thanks for the review, but I think its hardly fair to compare it to oc cards, it seems to compete well against stock titan and 780s, but amd really shit the bed on the cooler, though I cant complain seeing how much cheaper it is to titan and 780; would love to see another review when asus's direct cu II triple slot rog version come out, I bet it will give the titan oc/780 lightning a run for their money

24-10-2013, 02:19:24

Xrqute
Well it'll be interesting to see what it can achieve once the 3rd party water blocks hit the market which i dare say wont be long! but at the temps its running you'd want to be running dual loop so it dosen't effect the cooling of your other components to much.

24-10-2013, 02:23:31

CapitanoMal
Pretty sure the EK block is out already.

24-10-2013, 02:26:04

kdawgmaster
Im just going to say toms hardware and anandtech both have their R9 290X scoring alot higher where most games it ties or even spanks and titan

24-10-2013, 03:27:47

Zoot
Thanks for the review Tom.

Looks like it's exactly where it was rumored that it would end up ie. up around the GTX 780. It's priced good too, hopefully it'll force a price drop from nVidia. I wouldn't worry about the cooler either, non-reference cards from the likes of Sapphire, Asus, or MSi will take care of that.

Now the temptation kicks in...

24-10-2013, 03:40:42

neotrix

24-10-2013, 03:52:22

neotrix
It will be interesting to see the ref coolers on there, but i (and everyone else apparently) am well let down here. I was ready to trade out my Titan for something different.

Long time FB and YT follower so thought i better come here too, being all sociable and that....

24-10-2013, 04:32:21

Dicehunter
There are some proper ar$eholes bad mouthing TTL/OC3D on various forums for telling it like it is, Very sad little individuals.

24-10-2013, 04:41:17

SeekaX
that is some embarrassing stuff. it looks like a 150$ card (red PCB, really), performs on par with the 780 and that is saying it nicely since it lost most benchmarks, and it released half a year after the 780? all they've got going for them is the price and that better be around 500 euros, because else there is no way i could recommend this to anyone.

24-10-2013, 04:48:37

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicehunter View Post
There are some proper ar$eholes bad mouthing TTL/OC3D on various forums for telling it like it is, Very sad little individuals.
Thats pretty normal every time I dont just get all giddy about something new.

Far to easy for them

24-10-2013, 05:00:05

mArTyN
The casing, even on the video looks cheap. Such a shame.
Thanks Tom.

24-10-2013, 05:01:56

vorticalbox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xrqute View Post
Well it'll be interesting to see what it can achieve once the 3rd party water blocks hit the market which i dare say wont be long! but at the temps its running you'd want to be running dual loop so it dosen't effect the cooling of your other components to much.
not sure if you would need a dedicated loop just for the gpu, the card is hitting 95c because thats what the software is set to let it hit and the cooler isn't that great to keep it under the "target" a 3rd party cooler will be much better at keeping temps down allowing for overclocking.

If you stick it under water you won't be getting anywhere near 95c and just like cooling any other high end GPU the effect on water/component temp would be minimal.

24-10-2013, 05:10:56

RealTeflon
Are we going to see prices of the 780's driven down at all by this release?

24-10-2013, 05:14:07

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTeflon View Post
Are we going to see prices of the 780's driven down at all by this release?
i think at the moment they are too busy partying.

24-10-2013, 05:14:56

Bozzy
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTeflon View Post
Are we going to see prices of the 780's driven down at all by this release?
Hopefully .. then i can get a 2nd for sli

24-10-2013, 05:14:58

BillyCool
Honestly, this is a terrible review (video) in my opinion.

1) You complained about the cooler being ugly. That is a personal preference, personally I like the way it looks and I dislike the one from nvidia. Yes the Titan one. Yes, it's not the same in terms of build quality, but that's not a reason to dislike a GPU in general. After all, at 550$ and with the performance you get, I think that's really not something to complain about.

2) You keep complaining about the 95 degree temperature but you seem to ignore the fact that it's configured by default to run at these temperatures. It's like nvidia's boost 2.0, they have set the maximum temperature to 95 degrees that the card just boost as high as it can reaching that number. Again, this is fully customizable so complaining about it is not sensible.

3) You compared it with an aftermarket 780 from MSI, advising us to buy that one of those instead, completely ignoring the fact that there will be aftermarket 290X with better optimised drivers that MIGHT perform better, cooler and quieter. How exactly is this a fair comparison?

4) You claim that because it runs so hot, it doesn't/can't overclock. Yet, you didn't even talk about how the new Powertune technology works or even cares to manually do something yourself. Also, no aftermarket cards are out yet so that statement is invalid.

5) You didn't talk about any of the technologies that come with the card, especially Mantle and TrueAudio or even specifications.


All in all, this is totally against AMD. You said that their cooler is "shit" (your word), that it's ugly, that it doesn't perform well or overclock. You didn't even respect the effort these guys put into this card considering their situation. On the contrary, for almost 10 minutes you kept advertising nvidia's reference cooler and even advised us to buy one of their cards. All that in a REVIEW.

A review is supposed to give us information about a product, it's pros and cons, features that come with it etc. What you did was mostly an unfair comparison video between 780 and 290X.

24-10-2013, 05:23:29

looz
1) Not only looks, build quality as well.

2) Looking at the past, cards running at such temperatures are prone to micro fractures due to heat changes.

3) They aren't out in a while.

4) The cooler is so underpowered that the card underclocks itself after reaching 95c. The card is noticeably quicker at 100% fan speed, but then the noise is 65db.

5) He did talk about mantle, TrueAudio is just a clone of Dolby Headphone which requires support from the game itself.

Just my 2 cents, ofc doesn't reflect TTL's opinion.

Anyway, I originally came to post this:


-video fixed, you're welcome. SuB-

24-10-2013, 05:24:28

ShaunB-91
If you don't like Tom's style of reviews, head to Linus Tech Tips, and you'll just get an unboxing. (No offense Linus).

Edit: Pahaha! the video posted behind me, full load of the fan nearly blew his screen off the wall. :')

24-10-2013, 05:29:22

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyCool View Post
Honestly, this is a terrible review (video) in my opinion.

1) You complained about the cooler being ugly. That is a personal preference, personally I like the way it looks and I dislike the one from nvidia. Yes the Titan one. Yes, it's not the same in terms of build quality, but that's not a reason to dislike a GPU in general. After all, at 550$ and with the performance you get, I think that's really not something to complain about.

2) You keep complaining about the 95 degree temperature but you seem to ignore the fact that it's configured by default to run at these temperatures. It's like nvidia's boost 2.0, they have set the maximum temperature to 95 degrees that the card just boost as high as it can reaching that number. Again, this is fully customizable so complaining about it is not sensible.

3) You compared it with an aftermarket 780 from MSI, advising us to buy that one of those instead, completely ignoring the fact that there will be aftermarket 290X with better optimised drivers that MIGHT perform better, cooler and quieter. How exactly is this a fair comparison?

4) You claim that because it runs so hot, it doesn't/can't overclock. Yet, you didn't even talk about how the new Powertune technology works or even cares to manually do something yourself. Also, no aftermarket cards are out yet so that statement is invalid.

5) You didn't talk about any of the technologies that come with the card, especially Mantle and TrueAudio or even specifications.


All in all, this is totally against AMD. You said that their cooler is "shit" (your word), that it's ugly, that it doesn't perform well or overclock. You didn't even respect the effort these guys put into this card considering their situation. On the contrary, for almost 10 minutes you kept advertising nvidia's reference cooler and even advised us to buy one of their cards. All that in a REVIEW.

A review is supposed to give us information about a product, it's pros and cons, features that come with it etc. What you did was mostly an unfair comparison video between 780 and 290X.
you haven't watched the video have you.
a review is supposed to give you the facts so talking a lot about mantle is utterly pointless because there is no game utilizing it yet and still he even talked for a minute or two about it.
the cooler is shit, there is nothing to argue about it. it runs hot, takes ages to cool down and isn't as quiet as the nvidia one. it looks cheap because it is made of plastic and just because you seem to be into cheap materials doesn't mean the majority or even 50% agree with you.
the 95 degree limit you are talking about is absolutely nothing to be proud of because that means that a 780 performs the same but 15 degrees cooler and it's not rocket science to know that a card will die sooner if it runs hotter.
He did mention that he wants to try to overclock the card with an aftermarket cooler or a waterblock but THERE ARE NONE, so all he can do is tell us assumptions which again DO NOT BELONG IN A REVIEW. That is also the reason why he recommended the MSI gaming 780, there are no aftermarket coolers for the 290x and there will be none at release, so until there are aftermarket coolers you would be a maniac to buy one of these, no to mention that an aftermarket cooled 290x would come in at the same price as an MSI gaming 780 and still probably run hotter to still perform even.

So once again to sum it up for your hurt AMD loving butt:
The cooler is cheap, most people dislike the looks, it runs hot, it's nearly at the same price as a 780 while getting annihilated by the MSI Gaming 780, you don't know what a review is.

/edit
OH, it's 6 months late. Half a circle. In half a year nvidia will release the 8xx series which will utterly crush AMD once again. if that isn't a crushing defeat then i don't know what is.

/edit2
OHHHHH and he also compared the reference 290x with the reference 780 and the reference 780 cooler still crushed it and the performance was only the same!

24-10-2013, 05:31:08

Spiderz
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
Sugar honey iced-tea that card almost obtained lift off

24-10-2013, 05:33:07

CapitanoMal
Quite certain my cat's would be too scared to go near my computer even if it was nice and toasty with that card.... Absolutely crazy how loud that thing is, even at only 40%

24-10-2013, 05:33:46

ShaunB-91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiderz View Post
Sugar honey iced-tea that card almost obtained lift off
Paha just watched it again, that's ridiculous, someone make a comparison video next to a vacuum cleaner or hairdryer.

24-10-2013, 05:35:46

SuB
stahp posting bad youtube links boys, use the proper flippin' tags!! we've reminded y'all about this for months now! Next person who posts one wrong is gettin' Pincered...

24-10-2013, 05:39:46

looz
I originally tried to post it as an URL but it got forcibly embedded! :-P Anyway, cheers for fixing it up.

24-10-2013, 05:42:30

MrKambo
Right, Tom thanks for the review as usual cut-throat no bullshit stuff!! I like the way you do it now as well, no showing scores in the video.

Its amazing how in 40 minutes you seemed to have upset the entire internet

I think, I made a wrong decision getting this! I don't like noise

24-10-2013, 05:42:42

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuB View Post
stahp posting bad youtube links boys, use the proper flippin' tags!! we've reminded y'all about this for months now! Next person who posts one wrong is gettin' Pincered...
i don't see that happening until you either put in a button in the reply section or autoconvert youtube links to the proper tag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKambo View Post
Right, Tom thanks for the review as usual cut-throat no bullshit stuff!! I like the way you do it now as well, no showing scores in the video.

Its amazing how in 40 minutes you seemed to have upset the entire internet

I think, I made a wrong decision getting this! I don't like noise
did you preorder one? you mad man, never preorder anything.

24-10-2013, 05:46:06

SuB
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKambo View Post
Right, Tom thanks for the review as usual cut-throat no bullshit stuff!! I like the way you do it now as well, no showing scores in the video.

Its amazing how in 40 minutes you seemed to have upset the entire internet

I think, I made a wrong decision getting this! I don't like noise
In all fairness we did TRY to politely hint you in the other direction :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
i don't see that happening until you either put in a button in the reply section or autoconvert youtube links to the proper tag.
Aye I'm looking into it, if people post a url the forum seems to have a mind of it's own!! Some bad code from the people who set it up before I got my mits on it and put in the new shiny proper youtube tags.. I'll fix that at some point

24-10-2013, 05:49:30

looz


I couldn't resist.

24-10-2013, 05:51:07

MrKambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuB View Post
In all fairness we did TRY to politely hint you in the other direction :P
yeah i realise that now, but dont you ever just wanna take a chance on the underdog hoping kicks seven different shades of shit out of its competitor!

that was me 5am this morning

ill sort this out now i reckon

24-10-2013, 05:51:27

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post


I couldn't resist.
ahahahah. oh well, putting salt in the open wound.

24-10-2013, 05:54:36

ShaunB-91
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post


I couldn't resist.
Hahaha!

Can you not cancel your pre-order Kambo?

24-10-2013, 05:55:16

MrKambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
Hahaha!

Can you not cancel your pre-order Kambo?
already done, got the 780 Classy on order

24-10-2013, 05:56:19

SuB
I love to support the underdog ( I mean lets be honest, if I didn't I'd be helping different forums/websites than this one :P as it kinda started as an underdog in my eyes but has grown to much better things ) . But there's a difference between supporting and making a mistake :P

I'm sure you'll be able to slap a waterblock on it and get your money's worth.

24-10-2013, 05:58:17

ShaunB-91
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKambo View Post
already done, got the 780 Classy on order
Not fair.

24-10-2013, 05:58:48

MrKambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
Not fair.
ive been waiting months for new cards lol! thats the best one i can get for my money, and its on sale be silly not too

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuB View Post
I love to support the underdog ( I mean lets be honest, if I didn't I'd be helping different forums/websites than this one :P as it kinda started as an underdog in my eyes but has grown to much better things ) . But there's a difference between supporting and making a mistake :P

I'm sure you'll be able to slap a waterblock on it and get your money's worth.
i know what you're saying! well i admit, even when being hinted in the other direction i made a mistake, sue me

24-10-2013, 06:02:09

ShaunB-91
Just in time for Battlefield 4 MrKambo. :P Oooo exciting times! I'm off work next week too!

24-10-2013, 06:03:36

SieB
Oh dear... oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Man, AMD messed up on cooling Those temps are a joke, how AMD can release a card with a bad as a cooler as the one on the 290x is shocking.
Price and performance is great, if only they had slapped a good cooler on the 290x it would have been a perfect card.

We will have to wait and see if aftermarket coolers can save the 290x, thing is though, aftermarkets will only make the card more expensive.

24-10-2013, 06:07:20

Jeff_s510
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
Oh dear... oh dear, oh dear, oh dear

Man, AMD messed up on cooling Those temps are a joke, how AMD can release a card with a bad as a cooler as the one on the 290x is shocking.
Price and performance is great, if only they had slapped a good cooler on the 290x it would have been a perfect card.

We will have to wait and see if aftermarket coolers can save the 290x, thing is though, aftermarkets will only make the card more expensive.
you've read my mind and said it exactly how i wanted to.... AMD have given Nvidia no reason to step up there game.

24-10-2013, 06:21:59

Silver Sparrow
The written review was well worth the time to read and soak up. I wish the same effort was put into the video review (more a discussion than reviewing). For the first time ever (for me) the written review was more enjoyable and had less swearing... either way the info was plenty and clear. Cheers!

I feel a little 'bleh' afterwards however Too high expectations, I should have known better.

As for mantle isn't it for all of EA's latest Frostbite engine based games? [For me most importantly Dragon Age: Inquisition]

24-10-2013, 06:29:27

SuB
I'm not holding my breath on Mantle.. When they cornered the Dice guy at the nVidia event (the 3 person frank talk press conference thing) they basically laughed at it... Saying it's just ANOTHER thing people will have to program for and that it's daft to create yet ANOTHER api... Dice/EA were likely paid to utilize it (otherwise what's the point) considering how BF3 was heavy on nVidia and how the PhysX stuff suddenly went very quiet after it was mentioned a few times prior to the main advertising campaign started to gear up for BF4.. I think AMD came in with a big offer and asked them to program for Mantle...

This is of course all speculation, but to switch vendors between bf3 and bf4... makes you wonder doesn't it. Considering the engine has only really had cosmetic tweaks since bf3 and most of the promised tech in bf3 was dropped anyway..
meh, we'll see..

24-10-2013, 06:31:12

looz
The only important bit about Mantle is this twitter conversation.

24-10-2013, 06:34:34

Greenback
Not allowing aftermarket coolers from the go, seems to me like cutting off your nose to spite your face, With the price range this is at it's more for ppl who take pride in how their rig looks and given that have a preference towards the coolers on the Gpu. Given you could of been waiting 3 months for this to come out and now possibly wait another 2-4 months b4 amd allow 3rd party which is getting into next gen area I think they are saying go and buy NVidia with the cooler you want that goes with your build.
If I pay extra for an asus card I want ppl to look in my rig and know it with out having to ask Just my opinion

For those peed off at tom because his review doesn't match everyone else he says amd don't cherry pick what they send out so he could of got screwed over on the silicon lottery or less worried about upsetting the big name companies

24-10-2013, 06:40:41

Silver Sparrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
The only important bit about Mantle is this twitter conversation.
Thanks for that snippet looz.

24-10-2013, 06:46:11

SieB
Mantle has huge potential, but like people have said it's another thing for people to program for.
The thing is though, if it can offer the performance increase they say it can then it is something worth while and shouldn't be ignored. Why continue to use DX11 which holds performance back and offers less optimization?

G Sync is also good, but the thing with G Sync is you have to have a compatible monitor. So to be able to use G Sync you need to spend a couple of hundred quid just to be able to use it and most likely there will be a premium on monitors with G Sync. Also, not everyone games on a monitor, myself included, I game on a 47" HD TV.

Point is, the argument for Mantle being just another thing to program for can be compared to G Sync as another thing people need to buy.

Both have great potential, but I think Mantle is the better option to go for because not only is it free and will cost you nothing, it will (supposedly) give you increased performance and optimization in games.

24-10-2013, 07:13:40

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKambo View Post
already done, got the 780 Classy on order
I ended up canceling my preorder this morning after toms damning reveiw

24-10-2013, 07:21:32

barnsley
Goddammit AMD. You can't design coolers, leave it to the pros. I wish they'd stop trying to be Nvidia with the cooler. If companies like artic will release coolers that'll fit it I'd be tempted as it'd be a massive upgrade for me. They better let companies put their own coolers in or they'll be loosing alot of customers.

AMD trying to be either Intel (those effing 9590/9370 CPUs) and now Nvidia? Gah please stop.

24-10-2013, 07:22:27

MrKambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
I ended up canceling my preorder this morning after toms damning reveiw
get the classy

24-10-2013, 07:31:23

Zoot
Lulz, everybody is up in arms about the cooler. True, it leaves a lot to be desired, but the after market non reference coolers will take care of that.

I might actually get one for Christmas (needless to say with an after market cooler) if the price ends up less than 500 like Fudzilla is saying today.

24-10-2013, 07:32:49

Gurt11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyCool View Post
A review is supposed to give us information about a product, it's pros and cons, features that come with it etc. What you did was mostly an unfair comparison video between 780 and 290X.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sparrow View Post
The written review was well worth the time to read and soak up. I wish the same effort was put into the video review (more a discussion than reviewing). For the first time ever (for me) the written review was more enjoyable and had less swearing...
I felt kinda the same after I watched the video.
But maybe that's just the way it is. AMD did fook up the cooling on this thing. Saying it's ok that it runs on 95C is no excuse to not even try and make it better and/or quiter.
But the performance s there. This stock card, goes on par or over the stock 780. Plus it has the price advantage. (Certainly here on European mainland it seems)
More information on features like Mantle or TrueAdio s to be desired in a review imo. I know mantle is not implemented yet, but even then, I don't think a lot of people know what exactly this is and what this culd possibly mean to the gaming market. Feel free to put a lot of question marks around it though.

Just to be clear: I would not advise anyone at this point in time to go and get a stock 290X if they have the funds for a GTX780. But I can understand why they feel the way they feel about the video review.

24-10-2013, 07:33:59

Silver Sparrow
The more I read about the 290X, the more AMD have done it again. Too early out of the gates with designing a card 'purely aimed' for 4K gaming. Can anyone give me 3k for a 4k monitor please? [1440p has hardly taken off!]

24-10-2013, 07:38:22

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrKambo View Post
get the classy
i want to water cool so it must be reference

24-10-2013, 07:39:44

Watsyerproblem
AMD do need to try harder in the cooling department.

It's understandable that designing new coolers is an expensive process but those temps are awful, even if they say 95 degrees is ok for this card, 95 degrees is far beyond my comfort zone.

Hopefully the gpu vendors release these cards with some good coolers or water blocks soon.

I didn't find this review a good watch, while i understand that all data from benchmarking was on the website, i would have like at least some comparison of benchmark or game results in the video review.

24-10-2013, 07:43:20

RealTeflon
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
Mantle has huge potential, but like people have said it's another thing for people to program for.
The thing is though, if it can offer the performance increase they say it can then it is something worth while and shouldn't be ignored. Why continue to use DX11 which holds performance back and offers less optimization?
What sort of performance is lost going through the current DX11 APIs now? Are we loosing 3-5% or something significant like 20%+? How does one profile the API to find out the overhead?

Cheers

24-10-2013, 07:49:24

barnsley
I wonder what the 290 will be like?

24-10-2013, 07:51:12

ShaunB-91
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
I wonder what the 290 will be like?
Shizer.

24-10-2013, 08:02:03

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTeflon View Post
What sort of performance is lost going through the current DX11 APIs now? Are we loosing 3-5% or something significant like 20%+? How does one profile the API to find out the overhead?

Cheers
I'm not sure on the exact figures but they have said mantle for BF4 is expected to bring around a 15-20% performance increase.

24-10-2013, 08:05:22

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
Shizer.
we'll see I'm hoping that it'll be a toned down 290x but with better cooling options and at a cheaper price. That'll do me fine if that ends up being true although I am eventually getting more monitors so I'll need to dive into the relm of xfire/SLi so I'll be taking cooling/perfomance/noise above all.

24-10-2013, 08:09:50

Excalabur50
The thing that bothers me now is
1 wait for 290x with aftermarket cooling
2 pay $380au for second sapphire 7970oc with boost
3 get a 780 that I still don't know how it performs with triple screens, particularly changing easily from 5760x1080 to three individual 1920x1080 screens oooorrr
4 cut my losses and just buy one single 27" screen @ 144hz and stay 1920x1080?????

24-10-2013, 08:11:30

ShaunB-91
If you get a 290 and it has the 290x reference cooler on AND you then Crossfire it...

24-10-2013, 08:12:44

SeekaX
i just checked by mindfactory and they got a 290x for 570 euros, a 290x oc (will probably melt your case) for 570 euros as well. the same shop offers a 780 with after market cooler for 530 euros.

24-10-2013, 08:23:15

barnsley
Well one benefit of having a 290x coupled with my cpu is I will keep my room nice and toasty this winter

24-10-2013, 08:24:47

ShaunB-91
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
Well one benefit of having a 290x coupled with my cpu is I will keep my room nice and toasty this winter
Hahaha, saves on putting the heating on.

24-10-2013, 08:33:32

SuB
From reading that tweet thing.. Mantle is being accessed via OpenGL? is that correct?
If this is the case... I just don't understand how they're going to make all the new stuff work? Isn't BF4 built for the DX11 path etc etc..

Where's SPS he'll know...

24-10-2013, 08:35:47

looz
SuB, not really, but they're adding similar features to OpenGL, making it just as fast. And seeing how that is the main graphics API on linux, steamOS will be interesting indeed.

24-10-2013, 08:41:45

d3rrial
SuB: That's how I understood it aswell.
Dx11 and OpenGL don't necessarily exclude each other. They're only libraries. They probably use Dx11 as primary display painter for most of their drawing, but let stuff that can be done easier with Mantle queue up in Mantle with OpenGL and let this handle it. I would personally call this "Spaghetti Programming", but this is the only way this would make sense to me. (OpenGL doesn't have to paint anything actually, because Mantle is apparantly low level, so if does what I think it does (and it should do), they could probably use mantle to hand-paint a picture into the framebuffer)

24-10-2013, 08:44:55

SparkleDJackson
by the looks of it my rig is fine for a while yet. but dear goodness that heat

24-10-2013, 08:48:03

SieB
Apparently BF4 will run on Mantle without the use of DX11.

They probably just added a function which can switch between both Mantle and DX within the game engine. I'm no dev so I don't actually know if thats the case but thats the way I was thinking they were going to do it.

Sort of like a video player that can play different video extensions AVI, MKV etc. Except in this case it would be Frostbite 3 playing either DX11 or Mantle.

http://i.imgur.com/DXNuAhF.jpg

24-10-2013, 08:53:40

d3rrial
Mantle is more an extension than it is an API.

Consider Mantle to be AMDs equivalent to Nvidias "CUDA" or "PhysX". Game developers can utilize both while using DX or OGL, they aren't particularly bound to an API like OpenGL or DX. When mantle is bound to OpenGL, it probably just means that the function/method calls are declared there...

In my opinion Mantle most closely resembles PhysX: It can give you a performance enhancement in very specific situations, but it doesn't mean it has to. It's more of a gimmick...

Edit: OMG SieB I like how you view the world of software development. Cute

24-10-2013, 08:57:03

looz
d3rrial, nah, they are mutually exclusive.

Anyway, apparently the bridgeless crossfire allows, in theory, unlimited amount of crossfired cards. Source

So, since I am in creative mood today, shall we expect this mobo to be announced soon: link?

24-10-2013, 09:02:51

d3rrial
This isn't entirely true looz. You can't use both for rendering the game, but you can still load both libs and still access OGL methods while accessing DX11 methods.

For example you can still shove textures into the VRAM with OpenGL while you draw a frame with DX11

24-10-2013, 09:03:37

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rrial View Post

Edit: OMG SieB I like how you view the world of software development. Cute
I don't know how this stuff works

Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post

So, since I am in creative mood today, shall we expect this mobo to be announced soon: link?

24-10-2013, 09:07:48

d3rrial
Sorry if that came over offensive, I honestly enjoy your view of software

@looz I retract my previous statement, I have confused OpenCL and OpenGL in this scenario.

24-10-2013, 09:10:19

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rrial View Post
Sorry if that came over offensive, I honestly enjoy your view of software

@looz I retract my previous statement, I have confused OpenCL and OpenGL in this scenario.
No offence taken

24-10-2013, 09:10:45

SuB
The interesting bit in that Mantle still is the bit about CPU usage, using all 8 cores for example.. Why does the thing have to be on an AMD cpu ? Surely they can enable this for anyone with 4+ cores..

24-10-2013, 09:14:10

d3rrial
SuB in my semi-professional opinion Mantle is a buzzword, much like PhysX I wouldn't worry too much about it. It isn't unlikely, that DICE will be the only ones actually using it.

24-10-2013, 09:19:14

looz
SuB, the point of mantle is to reduce CPU load by allowing developers to issue commands directly to the graphics card without the need of CPU babysitting.

And why would anyone in their right mind build a gaming rig with AMD CPU. :-P

24-10-2013, 09:21:54

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
And why would anyone in their right mind build a gaming rig with AMD CPU. :-P
The majority of people who have AMD cpus. I presume you're joking :P...

24-10-2013, 09:23:47

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
SuB, the point of mantle is to reduce CPU load by allowing developers to issue commands directly to the graphics card without the need of CPU babysitting.

And why would anyone in their right mind build a gaming rig with AMD CPU. :-P
nothing wrong with AMD cpu's for gaming rigs, so i assume you are trolling

24-10-2013, 09:28:57

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
nothing wrong with AMD cpu's for gaming rigs, so i assume you are trolling
what is single threading performance

24-10-2013, 09:34:25

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
what is single threading performance
games are going towards support for more cores, and the single threaded performance is not that bad. if you have a real problem with the single threaded performance, overclock the FSB rather than the multiplier.so at the price of AMD mobo and cpu's along with the performance, they're really great for gaming rigs thats how i see it anyway

24-10-2013, 09:34:31

Damien c
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post

And why would anyone in their right mind build a gaming rig with AMD CPU. :-P
I have just built my grandad a gaming pc using a AMD FM2 cpu, simply because it's fine for the games he plays which are the Call Of Duty games and some of the Battlefield games.

I combined that cpu with a GTX660, which next year will be replaced by a R9 280x when I upgrade my dad's pc, when I upgrade mine.

The simple thing is that for just gaming AMD cpu's are more than adequate, and even for video editing etc AMD cpu's are fine.

Personally I use Intel because I prefer the extra performance from them, and I don't mind paying the extra for it but if I didn't have the option of paying the extra for a Intel cpu then I would happily use AMD in my pc.

24-10-2013, 09:34:49

d3rrial
Yes, all these poor lost souls, may the invisible pink unicorn be with them.

24-10-2013, 09:35:51

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
what is single threading performance
Something AMD CPUs don't do very well.

But for gaming where most of the performance comes from the GPU, CPU performances doesn't matter as much. Which is why AMD CPUs are great bang for your buck when it comes to a gaming rig.
Especially with next gen games which are all going to be optimized on and for 8 core AMD CPUs.

Sure Intel CPUs are faster and have better multithread/core performance but for gaming AMD CPUs are fine and in some cases better.

24-10-2013, 09:37:51

Dark NighT
God that cooler is such a mess, 95 degrees operating temperature and 15 minutes to cool back down to idle is a disgrace, on top of that the summer has just passed so next year expect even more fan noise or throttling because of the hot weather.

A rightfull shame amd, i had hoped you would beat the 780, and fair enough it does here and there for a reasonable price, but that cooler, im going to have to tell friends to stay away from it untill 3rd party coolers are on them cards.

24-10-2013, 09:40:19

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
what is single threading performance
Obsolete soon I hope. ;D

Jokes aside, no problems with games that use single threads on my rig, even ARMA2 is no issue for me. Piledriver is much more adequate in terms of single thread performance. Do not get me wrong, its still no where near as good as the majority of i series but its fine. Didn't you used to have the 4100? I remember you didn't exactly like that chip...

24-10-2013, 09:41:03

dalewakelin
Hehe the age old debate after a new line has been released by AMD

At 95 they need a pot noodle attachment... After market coolers and PCBs should hopefully solve the problem but even then it will still be pretty hot

24-10-2013, 09:41:13

d3rrial
SieB I think you underestimate just how much a CPU has to do in a game, JUST to supply the GPU with sufficient work. I know that it's easy to think that more cores means more power but that just isn't the case. Many operations and standard workflows rely heavily on single thread performance, which AMD CPUs just don't have. To be fair: Hyperthreading is a joke.

24-10-2013, 09:46:12

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rrial View Post
SieB I think you underestimate just how much a CPU has to do in a game, JUST to supply the GPU with sufficient work. I know that it's easy to think that more cores means more power but that just isn't the case. Many operations and standard workflows rely heavily on single thread performance, which AMD CPUs just don't have. To be fair: Hyperthreading is a joke.

The thing is, games are starting to move out of using a small number of cores. The 8350 does exceptionally well in Battlefield 3 and 4, keeping up with the i7 3770k and the i5. The main thing people seem to forget is that AMD cpus are excellent bang for the buck (except those terrible 9590/9370 cpus). Point in hand the 6300 is the same price as an i3. In games that support the cores (more and more will start to due to the next generation of consoles, hopefully) the 6300 is better performing. Rendering and video editing is where the CPUS fall down though, sadly. Streaming on the other hand is actually quite good on the 8series.

24-10-2013, 09:49:51

badtaylorx
tom, you almost seem angry in this review....something seems off

24-10-2013, 09:51:03

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
games are going towards support for more cores, and the single threaded performance is not that bad. if you have a real problem with the single threaded performance, overclock the FSB rather than the multiplier.so at the price of AMD mobo and cpu's along with the performance, they're really great for gaming rigs thats how i see it anyway
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
Something AMD CPUs don't do very well.

But for gaming where most of the performance comes from the GPU, CPU performances doesn't matter as much. Which is why AMD CPUs are great bang for your buck when it comes to a gaming rig.
Especially with next gen games which are all going to be optimized on and for 8 core AMD CPUs.

Sure Intel CPUs are faster and have better multithread/core performance but for gaming AMD CPUs are fine and in some cases better.
games are going towards multithreading but at the moment they are not using it quite as much as singlethreading and that won't change until i will upgrade anyways.
that god f*cking damn FX4100 bottlenecked me in every game i played (10 fps in bf4 beta, 10fps in planetside 2, etc.), it performs worse than a first gen i3. definitely not gonna bother anymore with AMD CPUs, and i know you will now argue with the 8320, but to be honest it's pathetic that AMD needs twice the core count and a higher clock rate to achieve what an i5 for the same price does.
i will not support the underdog for the sake of being different, i will only invest in quality parts and AMD is producing none atm. The only positive experience i had with AMD was the HD6870 which was the only AMD part i've ever owned that didn't have a shitload of issues and performed well.

24-10-2013, 09:54:57

d3rrial
Back on Topic: R9 290X Review

Plastic vs. Metal: Metal is just so much better haptically. Also the color scheme lends itself to more variety in a case. Where the AMD Card is so full of red, you'd either need to paint it or remove the reference cooler if you want your rig to have another color scheme

24-10-2013, 10:14:44

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by d3rrial View Post
Back on Topic: R9 290X Review

Plastic vs. Metal: Metal is just so much better haptically. Also the color scheme lends itself to more variety in a case. Where the AMD Card is so full of red, you'd either need to paint it or remove the reference cooler if you want your rig to have another color scheme
not just the reference cooler, even the PCB is red so you'd need to have a backplate and even then the pieces of red would bug me. also the metal adds a little bit of extra cooling capacity.

24-10-2013, 10:17:14

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
games are going towards multithreading but at the moment they are not using it quite as much as singlethreading and that won't change until i will upgrade anyways.
that god f*cking damn FX4100 bottlenecked me in every game i played (10 fps in bf4 beta, 10fps in planetside 2, etc.), it performs worse than a first gen i3. definitely not gonna bother anymore with AMD CPUs, and i know you will now argue with the 8320, but to be honest it's pathetic that AMD needs twice the core count and a higher clock rate to achieve what an i5 for the same price does.
i will not support the underdog for the sake of being different, i will only invest in quality parts and AMD is producing none atm. The only positive experience i had with AMD was the HD6870 which was the only AMD part i've ever owned that didn't have a shitload of issues and performed well.
Ah we've had quite the differing experiences. Yeah the 4100 is poor, every bulldozer CPU was pants in my opinion (no offense to anyone who owns one obviously). In terms of pricing the 8320 is around 107.99 while the cheapest i5 I can find (i5-3330) is 125.99. That is i3 money for around i5 performance.

Now before people start calling me a fan boy, In terms of experience with intel I've actually had it good. Currently I own an i7-950 (60 used, best budget cpu of all time , still need to get the mobo for it), an i3-550 (best i3s ever made, imo),core 2 duo (old laptop) and a i7-3537U (new laptop). I will also probably soon own another i7 due to me needing to record alot for tf2 matches (video render times on my 8 core is quite slow and I am lazy ).

I also probably mention that I've never had a good experience with Nvidia (poor excuses for drivers, poor cooling and poor build quality, admittedly that was evga's fault though.)and it has left a bad taste in my mouth because of it. I believe that I got my first AMD 'card (my 7870) at a good time, because I've had no driver issues to date and apart from one issue with cooling (thanks xfx) it has been faultless.

To sum this up, experience shapes all of our opinions. My experience with AMD has surprised me in terms of performance (I wasn't expecting much tbh however I get good performance in everything I play) and I'd like them to catch up to intel enough to cause intel to stop being so damn expensive. However your experience with AMD has been a hell hole so I understand why you don't like their products.

also back on topic, the cooler looks like something that you'd fit to a 7750, not a high end card. I think we can all agree it is much more thermaltake than Corsair in terms of looks. -sigh-

24-10-2013, 10:18:01

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
not just the reference cooler, even the PCB is red so you'd need to have a backplate and even then the pieces of red would bug me. also the metal adds a little bit of extra cooling capacity.
the pcb is black

24-10-2013, 10:25:38

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
Ah we've had quite the differing experiences. Yeah the 4100 is poor, every bulldozer CPU was pants in my opinion (no offense to anyone who owns one obviously). In terms of pricing the 8320 is around 107.99 while the cheapest i5 I can find (i5-3330) is 125.99. That is i3 money for around i5 performance.

Now before people start calling me a fan boy, In terms of experience with intel I've actually had it good. Currently I own an i7-950 (60 used, best budget cpu of all time , still need to get the mobo for it), an i3-550 (best i3s ever made, imo),core 2 duo (old laptop) and a i7-3537U (new laptop). I will also probably soon own another i7 due to me needing to record alot for tf2 matches (video render times on my 8 core is quite slow and I am lazy ).

I also probably mention that I've never had a good experience with Nvidia (poor excuses for drivers, poor cooling and poor build quality, admittedly that was evga's fault though.)and it has left a bad taste in my mouth because of it. I believe that I got my first AMD 'card (my 7870) at a good time, because I've had no driver issues to date and apart from one issue with cooling (thanks xfx) it has been faultless.

To sum this up, experience shapes all of our opinions. My experience with AMD has surprised me in terms of performance (I wasn't expecting much tbh however I get good performance in everything I play) and I'd like them to catch up to intel enough to cause intel to stop being so damn expensive. However your experience with AMD has been a hell hole so I understand why you don't like their products.

also back on topic, the cooler looks like something that you'd fit to a 7750, not a high end card.
oh you don't even know the full story yet. so i sat there about a year ago with my fx4100 HD6870 rig and thought "damn, that CPU is garbage, but i like the GPU, a 7950 is a good bit cheaper than a 670, so i'm gonna get an asus 7950 DCUII". got the card, amazing cooler, amazing benchmark results, loved it. started quake, artifacts. started cod4, artifacts. started BC2, 30fps at best, probably like 15fps average. so i returned it and got a replacement, which had the famous DCUII fault of having a poorly seated cooler which made it go up to 100% fan speed and 95 degrees right on boot, so i returned that one, got a replacement and it had the exact same issues as the first one. it absolutely boggled my mind how the 7950 couldn't deal with any games older than 3 years.
also my first CPU was some AMD CPU (don't know which model anymore) and it burned within a week and my cousin's laptop which had an AMD CPU burned within 3 months twice. so yea, that shaped my opinion.
conclusion for AMD in my opinon: parts for people who don't want to spend a whole lot of money and aren't interested in anything older than 3 years.

24-10-2013, 10:27:04

d3rrial
If the PCB was red, I would freak out.

24-10-2013, 10:28:28

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
the pcb is black
it seems so red-ish to me. must be my colorblindness, tricked by the overwhelming red of the rest. it's a weird black though.

24-10-2013, 10:36:37

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
conclusion for AMD in my opinon: parts for people who don't want to spend a whole lot of money and aren't interested in anything older than 3 years.
Or rather they have budgetary constraints. That is an abysmal experience you got right there D: . In terms of games that are older, Arma 2 and GTA IV are both older than three years and they run fine for me. Heck isn't crisis 1 older than three years as well now? You're definatly right about the three year rule for the bulldozer chips though, piledrivers (my friend has a 4300/7850 and he plays those games fine) seem to cope (arma 2 can be a pain for 4350 and below) /do well with those games.


Also I wonder if the PCB is a browny-black? People with asrock boards rejoice, something else has a brown 'board thing!

24-10-2013, 10:42:19

Wraithguard
Excellent no holds barred review TTL I'll wait and see what the wizards at Gigabyte can do with the Windforce cooler.

24-10-2013, 10:47:31

ugiboy
I have spent the last six hours reading reviews on AMD's flagship card. Ryan Shrout of PC Perspective gives it his Gold award. Tom's Hardware's Chris Angelini gives it the "Elite awardthe first time a graphics card has received this honor, I believe, during my tenure." Elric, Tech of tomorrow agrees. Why does this review seem to contradict the general consensus? At this price it has to be better "Bang for Buck" than "The Green Team" at the moment. What will the GTX780 TI bring to the table????

24-10-2013, 10:52:55

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
Or rather they have budgetary constraints. That is an abysmal experience you got right there D: . In terms of games that are older, Arma 2 and GTA IV are both older than three years and they run fine for me. Heck isn't crisis 1 older than three years as well now? You're definatly right about the three year rule for the bulldozer chips though, piledrivers (my friend has a 4300/7850 and he plays those games fine) seem to cope (arma 2 can be a pain for 4350 and below) /do well with those games.


Also I wonder if the PCB is a browny-black? People with asrock boards rejoice, something else has a brown 'board thing!
heck i have budgetary constraints, but i rather wait a couple months longer than getting half arsed stuff.
it wasn't the CPU causing the artifacts in quake/cod4 and the horrible framerate in bc2 because the 6870 dealt with those games perfectly fine.

24-10-2013, 11:00:19

Ghosthud1
I think it's a little too early to take a side to be honest, I've waited months and i can wait some more, be it green or red i want the side that offers me the best performance for my money.

Company gimmicks such as PhysX and Mantle will not help determine my choice, it's raw performance data that will.

The AMD card is a solid performer but comes with that stupid headache of a cooler. I use open headphones so i don't want to have a jet taking off next to me for my gaming sessions.

If what Tom said was true about the aftermarket parts then it's a shame really as it doesn't take a genius to notice how much of a fumble that cooler really is.

I come to OC3D first to get an unbiased look at technology and that's what i got, i agree with most points and i disagree with others.

Overall i think the card deserves a lesser award and i think the stance Tom took is greatly appreciated, he isn't hating on AMD for the sake of it, he's pointing out cold hard facts.

24-10-2013, 11:00:45

Watsyerproblem
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugiboy View Post
I have spent the last six hours reading reviews on AMD's flagship card. Ryan Shrout of PC Perspective gives it his Gold award. Tom's Hardware's Chris Angelini gives it the "Elite awardthe first time a graphics card has received this honor, I believe, during my tenure." Elric, Tech of tomorrow agrees. Why does this review seem to contradict the general consensus? At this price it has to be better "Bang for Buck" than "The Green Team" at the moment. What will the GTX780 TI bring to the table????
its an odd release, the reviews i have read generally are good.

those who do 4k testing love this card, those who use 1080p testing think its good bang per buck but not a TITAN-KILLER. Cooling issues aside these cards seem generally well received.

hopefully a few aftermarket designs come out for this card and put this cooling disaster behind us.

24-10-2013, 11:05:44

SuB
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugiboy View Post
I have spent the last six hours reading reviews on AMD's flagship card. Ryan Shrout of PC Perspective gives it his Gold award. Tom's Hardware's Chris Angelini gives it the "Elite awardthe first time a graphics card has received this honor, I believe, during my tenure." Elric, Tech of tomorrow agrees. Why does this review seem to contradict the general consensus? At this price it has to be better "Bang for Buck" than "The Green Team" at the moment. What will the GTX780 TI bring to the table????
are you trying to be a walking advert or something?

24-10-2013, 11:06:21

d3rrial
Interesting would be to know how well it does Litecoin mining and Folding

24-10-2013, 11:06:51

ugiboy
I am not on either team, before I got 7970's I had (and still have for sale) 2 x 590's. I just point out what I am reading.

24-10-2013, 11:11:36

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by ugiboy View Post
I am not on either team, before I got 7970's I had (and still have for sale) 2 x 590's. I just point out what I am reading.
well the second you mentioned elric the entire thing got kinda invalid.

24-10-2013, 11:13:39

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
heck i have budgetary constraints, but i rather wait a couple months longer than getting half arsed stuff.
it wasn't the CPU causing the artifacts in quake/cod4 and the horrible framerate in bc2 because the 6870 dealt with those games perfectly fine.
I saved for a while to get my rig I have now, probably because unlike you I couldn't just keep adding better bits on (such as cpu cooler, ram, case etc although I could get the graphics card) due to the Dell motherboard of my old pc being a pain in the butt. For builds on behalf of friends I only use AMD up to a point. If they have more than 600 for everything (monitor etc) I will use intel. In all honesty all the people I've done builds for with AMD parts haven't had a problem. The same can't be said for Nvidia and in terms of intel builds, all of the ones I have done have had 3770s or greater so obviously no problems in terms of performance but then again I would expect nothing less than chips costing upwards of 150.


-edit- Yeah Elric isn't the best out there and while I don't mind him, there is only so much I can take from a man who endorses Thermaltakky.

24-10-2013, 11:19:35

ugiboy
Elric was actually the third person I quoted. This is not my opinion, I will post that when i have purchased one.

24-10-2013, 11:28:07

Zoot
You know, this actually reminds me of the days of the HD4870.

Nvidia brought out the GTX 200 series and charged jaw dropping prices for them, then AMD came along with the HD4870, which really decisively beat Nvidia's top offering of the time; the GTX 280, while costing significantly less. I actually went away and bought one back then (~5 years ago), as it was the best bang-for-buck card at the time. Nvidia was then forced into a price war in response, I think we saw up to 50% price cuts at the time from them in response.

I suspect we're going to see the same with the GTX 760, 770, 780 & Titan. Yay competition! It's going to be an interesting Xmas when it comes to those of us shopping for a new GPU.

24-10-2013, 11:34:47

ugiboy
I hope you are right, I agree 100%. Bring it on!

24-10-2013, 11:37:36

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
You know, this actually reminds me of the days of the HD4870.

Nvidia brought out the GTX 200 series and charged jaw dropping prices for them, then AMD came along with the HD4870, which really decisively beat Nvidia's top offering of the time; the GTX 280, while costing significantly less. I actually went away and bought one back then (~5 years ago), as it was the best bang-for-buck card at the time. Nvidia was then forced into a price war in response, I think we saw up to 50% price cuts at the time from them in response.

I suspect we're going to see the same with the GTX 760, 770, 780 & Titan. Yay competition! It's going to be an interesting Xmas when it comes to those of us shopping for a new GPU.
but...the 290x doesn't beat the 780 and it's not that much cheaper either. nvidia has currently got no reason to drop prices. nvidia is general isn't forced to do anything by AMD, let's not forget that the only reason AMD still is in the GPU business is that nvidia released their 660ti as the 680 in response to the 7970, who knows what else they hide in their pockets because AMD doesn't challenge them enough to play with open cards.

24-10-2013, 11:38:36

SieB
At the end of the day the 290x is a very good performing bang for your buck card.

It has a shit cooler, doesn't change the fact it is a good card. Aftermarket coolers will fix the temps.

Also, like Tom said in the video the card is designed to run at 95c so temps are not high if that is what the card is designed to run at.

He also said that the reason temps stay high for so long is because the fans drop right down strait away not staying high enough to cool the card. This can be fixed by making a fan profile in MSI Afterburner.

I think the vid was a bit OTT when basically it's supposed to be a 290x review but turned into Nvidia makes better coolers than AMD discussion. And having two 780 boxes and a Titan box clearly on show during the conclusion to take the piss was a bit OTT as well.

There was no need for any of that and it could of been a vid on the 290x without throwing Nvidia cards in there. The issues with the cooler could have still been discussed without the "oh look how shiny and pretty he Nvida cooler is compared to the AMD one"

I don't take sides on GPU manufacturers or any other product, I just buy what is the best for my money at the time of buying.

To say the 290x is a bad card is wrong, it has a bad cooler and runs hotter. It still beats the Titan and is 350 cheaper. There is no denying that without aftermarket coolers for the 290x, the 780 for only 30 more is the better buy.

24-10-2013, 11:44:06

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
but...the 290x doesn't beat the 780 and it's not that much cheaper either. nvidia has currently got no reason to drop prices. nvidia is general isn't forced to do anything by AMD, let's not forget that the only reason AMD still is in the GPU business is that nvidia released their 660ti as the 680 in response to the 7970, who knows what else they hide in their pockets because AMD doesn't challenge them enough to play with open cards.
According to the majority of other reviews it seems to hang quite well with even the Titan.
http://techreport.com/review/25509/a...-card-reviewed
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...r9-290x-review
Others too...

Sure there isn't much of a difference between the 780 and 290X in terms of pricing, but it seems to be hanging with the Titan despite costing slightly more than half as much, that's a kick in the pants for Nvidia whatever way you look at it.

24-10-2013, 11:47:36

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
According to the majority of other reviews it seems to hang quite well with even the Titan.
http://techreport.com/review/25509/a...-card-reviewed
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...r9-290x-review
Others too...

Sure there isn't much of a difference between the 780 and 290X in terms of pricing, but it seems to be hanging with the Titan despite costing slightly more than half as much, that's a kick in the pants for Nvidia whatever way you look at it.
the 780 outperforms a titan when overclocked, did nvidia now kick themselves in the balls? the only one that got kicked in the balls is AMD for getting completely kicked out of the highend market for half a year and now they didn't even take the crown, so they can now do their price battle thing with nvidia till they decide to wreck them with the 8xx which will happen in about 6 months i'd say.

24-10-2013, 11:59:29

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
I don't take sides on GPU manufacturers or any other product, I just buy what is the best for my money at the time of buying.
I'm the same, I've owned cards from both camps, with actually more from Nvidia rather than AMD.

CPUs on the other hand, I'm a major AMD fan, no Intel in this house. Although that's more because of a lack of courtesy from said company, certainly not because of their products performance, that I can't argue with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
the 780 outperforms a titan when overclocked, did nvidia now kick themselves in the balls? the only one that got kicked in the balls is AMD for getting completely kicked out of the highend market for half a year and now they didn't even take the crown, so they can now do their price battle thing with nvidia till they decide to wreck them with the 8xx which will happen in about 6 months i'd say.
As I look back the thread, I see you've done your fair share of anti-AMD ranting. Whatever dude, I'm not going to argue with you, you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else, I ain't going to attempt changing it.

Anyway, I stand by my prediction of some nice chunky Nvidia price cuts.

24-10-2013, 12:10:45

antihero
Quote:
Originally Posted by neotrix View Post
I wonder what the ASIC on that thing is.

24-10-2013, 12:13:29

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
As I look back the thread, I see you've done your fair share of anti-AMD ranting. Whatever dude, I'm not going to argue with you, you're entitled to your opinion like everyone else, I ain't going to attempt changing it.

Anyway, I stand by my prediction of some nice chunky Nvidia price cuts.
did you see TTL's last video? there he explains pretty well why the 290x vs titan argument is utterly pointless. and now that he mentioned that there probably won't be any proper third party coolers until 2014 i really don't see a reason for putting the 290x over the 780, because that is already close to the nvidia 8xx release.
AMD pretty much wrecked themselves with that stupid reference cooler only release just to put themselves on even with nvidia.
and if you really read my past posts then you will know that i had both positive and negative experiences with AMD GPUs, so i was unbiased about it till i read the review.

24-10-2013, 12:14:37

Remmy
What the hell do AMD mean it utilises every watt? That doesn't even make sense, if it used every single watt, there would be absolutely no heat dissipated, it's simple conservation of energy, that heat has to come from somewhere.

24-10-2013, 12:39:55

ES#67
Thank you TTL for the review and for getting up early to get it out to us. After reading and watching the reviews for this card, I feel let down by AMD. Before I say anything else let me say that most of the GPU's I've owned have been AMD cards. In fact I'm in the process of selecting parts for a new system. But I have to factor in many things before I'll purchase anything.

I'm a single father of one and also a caregiver for a family member, so I don't have funds to just go out and get whatever I'd like to have. My current system is 5yrs old and I have a 5750 in it. So for me here are the pro's and cons of this card.

Pros:
Performance: I use at this time a 32in Sony bravia as my monitor and my TV. I play a few games and I like the ability to play on a large screen.

Price Point: Yeah, who wouldn't like to have a great card at a low price. Especially in my position.

Cons:
Heat: Since I have to be careful with what funds I have. I don't really get the chance to water cool my computer, even though I'd like too. So except for a AIO cooler I use air cooling. I don't want something in a system that's going to put out that much heat inside a case.

Looks: When I build a system I do want the items I select to look nice. Not something that just works. So unless the 3rd party venders are able to get a hold of this card, I'd say no to having it even if given to me.

Again thank you for the review Tim and I totally agree with you. Unless the Venders can fix the heat and looks of this card, I'll just get a 780.

24-10-2013, 13:03:40

d3rrial
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remmy View Post
What the hell do AMD mean it utilises every watt? That doesn't even make sense, if it used every single watt, there would be absolutely no heat dissipated, it's simple conservation of energy, that heat has to come from somewhere.
Maybe AMD expects you to use the R9 290X to run a steam turbine

24-10-2013, 13:09:01

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
if you really read my past posts then you will know that i had both positive and negative experiences with AMD GPUs, so i was unbiased about it till i read the review.
So now you're admitting having a bias?

As a BTW, as for the 800 series, you previously mentioned 6 months. However if you're to believe Mr Demerjian of Semiaccurate, it's the end of next year. (He links to another article behind their paywall)
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/05/m...n-pc-drop-amd/
Quote:
Probably because AMD is about to launch the new R7/R9 cards in the same time frame and Nvidia has literally no answer until Q4/2014.
Take it with a grain of salt needless to say, as he's been wrong before, but he's probably a semi-more credible source.

24-10-2013, 13:58:54

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
So now you're admitting having a bias?

As a BTW, as for the 800 series, you previously mentioned 6 months. However if you're to believe Mr Demerjian of Semiaccurate, it's the end of next year. (He links to another article behind their paywall)
http://semiaccurate.com/2013/10/05/m...n-pc-drop-amd/
Take it with a grain of salt needless to say, as he's been wrong before, but he's probably a semi-more credible source.
obviously i am not unbiased anymore, i built up an opinion, that's what happens when you read a review.
and i don't think i'm going to believe someone who is working for a company named "semiaccurate"
how the hell is he even supposed to know that nvidia won't have an answer to a series which's specs aren't even in the works yet because the current one hasn't been completed yet. or does he mean the current r7/9? that would completely wreck his credibility because the current AMD series is only on par with what nvidia released half a year ago, so if they haven't BBQ'd all summer they should already have something new.

24-10-2013, 14:09:44

dalewakelin

24-10-2013, 14:12:09

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalewakelin View Post
poor girl, her hair must have melted.

24-10-2013, 14:17:17

Tripp
i cant believe some fan boys, a guy had posted on an OC3D facebook status. he said an i quote "u will never find any AMD gpu in any workstation", erm Tom what does orca have in it again hmmmmmm

24-10-2013, 14:18:34

dalewakelin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
i cant believe some fan boys, a guy had posted on an OC3D facebook status. he said an i quote "u will never find any AMD gpu in any workstation", erm Tom what does orca have in it again hmmmmmm
And the Fire Pro cards by AMD specifically designed for workstations

24-10-2013, 14:20:57

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalewakelin View Post
And the Fire Pro cards by AMD specifically designed for workstations
yeah i know mate i pointed it out not sure if he will see it though, as i couldn't tag his name in it for some reason

24-10-2013, 14:24:04

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
yeah i know mate i pointed it out not sure if he will see it though, as i couldn't tag his name in it for some reason
idk what he considers a workstation, i guess a workstation just depends on the software you are running on it. but ye still, the AMD fire pro cards seem to not exist for that guy. i guess he is on the cuda render trip.

24-10-2013, 15:13:45

yassarikhan786
I hope we see after market versions before the end of this year, however unlikely it may be.

The performance is very good, but the cooler is a major turn off.

24-10-2013, 16:02:39

schietdammer
tomshardware guru3d anandtech techreport al compare this card to the titan beacsue 780 isn't even near (i mean the 290x is more on the level of titan and beating it most of the times on high resolutions , and never looses from 780 but maybe i looked to my games or games that i would play) the 290x , how come this review says otherwise

i have played battlefield 4 beta and with 4x msaa on ... the game uses 3,3gb vram on my 3x 1920x1080 monitors - i play on 1 7970 6gb - and that was the shanghai multiplayer map - the only map in the beta - 1 of 10 mp maps of bf4 , so i do not know if there are even bigger maps which need more vram. So when you go for nvidia you can't go to the 780 with its 3gb or the upcomming 780 ti altough some sites say it wil get 6gb vram just like the titan , speaking of which ... that card can play bf4 on 3 monitors , the only alternative from nvidia is the 770 4gb versions or you can even go lower and pick up a 760 4gb version , but i would not recommend 256bit memory (which is in the 760 and 770). So it looks like the only nvidia option is the titan. amd had the 7970 6gb which has 384bit memory or this 290x 4gb 512bits , i havent seen a 280x with 6gb , nor do i know how much ram the 290 will have almost certainly also 4gb.

All those sites pitch this 290x against titan , even with this cooler it wins from it , so with better coolers it would be even more easier to choose between this card or an nvidia alternative.

24-10-2013, 16:40:03

d3rrial
Quote:
Originally Posted by schietdammer View Post
[...]
Wow, first post and already so constructive!

In case you haven't noticed. Toms point was that the R9 290X was aimed at the GTX 780 which actually does outperform the Titan in games under certain circumstances. So just because the 290X beats the Titan sometimes, doesn't mean that in these same areas it will also beat the GTX 780.

24-10-2013, 17:03:01

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
obviously i am not unbiased anymore, i built up an opinion, that's what happens when you read a review.
and i don't think i'm going to believe someone who is working for a company named "semiaccurate" .
Good for you.

24-10-2013, 18:02:52

barnsley
I'm hoping that Sapphire or another company who knows what to do with cooling can sort the 290x. I'm presuming they will be able to, although it might be quite extreme (the first out of the box AIO cooled 'card anyone?).If not, Gainward Phantom 780 here I come!

24-10-2013, 18:04:26

Bartacus
I fail to see why Tom is taking so much flak for this review. He gave the card a performance award. Yes, he spent entirely too much time harping on the crappy cooler, but he still made legit points. He just should have taken less time on said points.

24-10-2013, 18:11:12

GoogalyMoogaly
The way I see it Mantle wont replace DirectX, it can't (technically it could, but other factors mean it can't).
Someone mentioned that G-Sync costs money but Mantle is free. Mantle is only free if you have an AMD card, otherwise you have to buy an AMD card. If you have an AMD card G-Sync isn't really an option, unless you buy an Nvidia card. Even then you'd need to buy a G-sync Monitor regardless of what card you own.
G-Sync does have the advantage, if it doesn't need to be specifically supported by the game. Mantle has to be coded into the game along side DirectX. It doesn't need DirectX, but the developers (or rather the companies employing them) do. Your game sales wont be great if you exclude every Nvidia card, every Intel 'card' and the large number of AMD cards that don't use GCN. That's eliminating a large number of your customer base before you even take into account who actually want to buy the game. Mantle could only replace DirectX in a world where such a large majority of customers own a recent high(-ish) spec AMD card that the games company doesn't care about the remaining people.
Personally, and I say this owning 3 GPUs that support Mantle, I hope that Mantle quickly dies a death and some real work is done by all GPU manufacturers to OpenGL as powerful and efficient as possible.

Regarding the CPU aspect of gaming and how games are using more threads. The thing is if a game uses multiple threads but still uses a single thread for the 'main' process and uses other threads for background tasks or such then you still need good single threaded performance on the main thread. If Mantle can balance the threads so that usage across cores is more even that that should help.
Also, anyone saying AMD CPUs, specifically Bulldozer and Piledriver CPUs, are good for gaming obviously haven't played GW2. That game hates those CPUs. My Phenom II X6 1055T @ 3.8GHz outperformed my FX-8350 @ 4.5GHz by probably close to 50%. My 4770K @ 4.3GHz is well on it's way to giving me twice the FPS of the 8350.
So guess it depends what games you play! I believe the original Crysis only uses 2 cores/threads. And yes, I sometimes like to play games that were released more than 4 days ago, so shoot me!

As for the 290X, the cooler does seem off-putting. However, after the 5870 I decided not to buy AMD cards close to launch. Not because their release prices are unreasonable compared to the competition (except maybe the 7990), but because AMD seem much more willing to drop their prices. So I'm going to (hopefully) run 2 or 3 7950s for a little while and see what happens. Maybe the 290X will have some better 3rd part coolers then and even more reasonable prices. Plus we might see what effect Mantle has and hear more about what sort of support it will get.

24-10-2013, 18:27:30

barnsley
hrm, I'll check crisis's core usage next time but as I said earlier it runs fine so it isn't an issue for me. The same goes for the older games I mentioned. I probably should mention that I play tf2 more than anything else so I'm not someone who only plays newer games. Also older games= less intensive so it never really is an issue anymore, atleast in my experience. Defiantly right about not buying AMD cards on launch though, the price drops of my current card still haunt me in my sleep .

24-10-2013, 18:45:30

CapitanoMal
So does anybody have any idea about Nvidia price cuts on the 780 and stuff, or the time frame for third party coolers on the 290x? I really don't want to just rush off and get a 780 this very minute when the possibilities for 290x or a cheaper 780 are so high.

24-10-2013, 18:54:48

Remmy
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalewakelin View Post

lmao awesome xD

24-10-2013, 19:04:42

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
So does anybody have any idea about Nvidia price cuts on the 780 and stuff, or the time frame for third party coolers on the 290x? I really don't want to just rush off and get a 780 this very minute when the possibilities for 290x or a cheaper 780 are so high.
I think Nvidia price cuts are rumoured for the same time as the 780ti release in a couple of weeks, just rumours though, nothing official. According to Tom and other places aftermarket coolers for the 290x aren't due until early next year.
So yeah, price cuts for the 780 are most likely going to happen before the aftermarket coolers for the 290x.

24-10-2013, 19:09:06

CapitanoMal
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
....
Sad day

24-10-2013, 20:21:41

Ghosthud1
I guess if you play flight sims it would add to the immersion

24-10-2013, 20:28:40

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
Sad day
they might just have to raise the price because of the party they are throwing after the 290x reveal and the ref cooler only release.

24-10-2013, 21:09:01

SPS
Mantle is just a low level graphics API similar to those present on consoles. What is so hard to understand?

24-10-2013, 22:21:47

Penance81
I'm glad he made the video as brutally honest as he did. After watching TTL's video and Linus Tech Tips I canceled my order on the 290X. They both did a really good job at comparing real life usage scenarios. Most of the glowing reviews compared stock to stock which while fair did not account for all the factory overclocked GTX 780's out there. Which in the next few weeks I imagine will be the same price as the 290X.

My fear with the 290x is it ends up being similar to the AMD 9590 where they have more or less binned out good 290's and they are at the top of their clocks. With that heat and wattage is just all feels very familiar. In the end I'm waiting on two things: water cooled overclocked 290x scores and GTX 780TI benchmarks.

25-10-2013, 00:26:56

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penance81 View Post
In the end I'm waiting on two things: water cooled overclocked 290x scores and GTX 780TI benchmarks.
EK already has 290x blocks available for purchase.

25-10-2013, 01:34:15

addbot
aside from benchmarking what programs or games will make the card reach 95C?

25-10-2013, 02:03:44

d3rrial
Everything addbot. That's the point. While it's in 3D mode, it will ramp fan RPM down and voltages up until it hits 95C then when that point is hit, it will start adjusting fan speed to keep the card at ~95C until it switches into 2D mode where Voltages go down again, along with the Fan-speed

Also, Googaly:
Single threaded performance isn't only important because there is one master thread and a couple of worker threads, but also because all those threads need to be kept in Sync by sophisticated mechanisms. It's not always as easy as to just set a Mutex and then chillax..

25-10-2013, 03:32:16

ShaunB-91
This debate is still going. O.o

25-10-2013, 03:54:31

SuB
Wow I missed all this lastnight.. I might go back through and read up on it all but the fact we're at page 16 on default thread view count is making me chuckle..

25-10-2013, 03:56:46

Dicehunter
I thankfully talked my work friend out of getting a 290x, He's now getting a 780

25-10-2013, 03:57:23

ShaunB-91
I wouldn't bother SuB, it turned into CPU's and a couple of moans between fanboys. I was going to say I didn't think the PC market was like the console one with the fanboys.

Edit: If nobody watched TTL's NEW video on his thoughts of the 290x to clear things up then watch it. Everyone is saying how he only talks about how nice the 770/780/Titan look well he already made the point of the 290x DOES hang in there with the 780 BUT becuase the cooling isn't up to scratch, why not just pay 30 more, and have an MSI Gaming GTX 780, that a. looks nicer (in his opinion), b. it's cooler. c. it's quieter. d. it's the same performance. e. if you overclock then you get 15fps more than the 290x on average!

I can't see how people can't get their heads round it, he's telling it from a if you were to ask me then I'd suggest point of view...which is why we are all here right?

25-10-2013, 04:27:19

Dicehunter
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
I can't see how people can't get their heads round it
People like that are either 1 of a few things, An idiot, A troll, Blind brand loyalty fan boy/girl OR A mix of all.

25-10-2013, 04:44:17

schietdammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
I wouldn't bother SuB, it turned into CPU's and a couple of moans between fanboys. I was going to say I didn't think the PC market was like the console one with the fanboys.

Edit: If nobody watched TTL's NEW video on his thoughts of the 290x to clear things up then watch it. Everyone is saying how he only talks about how nice the 770/780/Titan look well he already made the point of the 290x DOES hang in there with the 780 BUT becuase the cooling isn't up to scratch, why not just pay 30 more, and have an MSI Gaming GTX 780, that a. looks nicer (in his opinion), b. it's cooler. c. it's quieter. d. it's the same performance. e. if you overclock then you get 15fps more than the 290x on average!

I can't see how people can't get their heads round it, he's telling it from a if you were to ask me then I'd suggest point of view...which is why we are all here right?
you forgot F - you said yourself that you read all 16pages that means you also read page 14 with my post saying something about lack of vram on the 780 - and that is that battlefield 4 uses more than 3gb vram when you game at 3x 1920x1080 , so no way in hell the 780 is an alternative in this - i think - commen scenario. The upcoming 780 ti better gets a 6gb version cause if it is only 3gb it isn't ok - for me ofcourse (everybody has there own setup) - the only other options are 770 4gb in sli or the titan , and then ofcourse amd with this 290x and probably also the 290 will have 4gb ... but also my 7970 6gb sapphire

25-10-2013, 04:47:55

ShaunB-91
What if you don't play Battlefield?

25-10-2013, 04:49:24

Cragzman
I have read somewhere that EKWB have made a waterblock for the R9 290X. Oh please Tom whack one of these on and OC the nuts off it!

25-10-2013, 05:14:25

Zoot
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32...-out-on-newegg

It's after selling out in the US (which would probably be its biggest market) on Newegg in a matter of hours. Great news for AMD.

25-10-2013, 05:29:48

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
Sad day
Happy days dude

Price cuts are good, a cheaper 780 is a good thing. Also, if Nvidia cut the price of the 780 then hopefully AMD will drop the price of the 290x as well.

25-10-2013, 05:29:57

schietdammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunB-91 View Post
What if you don't play Battlefield?
the question is do you game on 3x 1920x1080 , cause google : guru3d crysis 3 vram - beacuse i think it is not allowed to give a direct url but maybe i am wrong about that , there you see that crysis 3 - on highest settings ofcourse - uses 2,2gb vram on just 1 1920x1200 , and 3 times 1920x1200 is higher than 3x 1920x1080 so you will have to subtract some vram , but i think crysis 3 uses 4gb vram (i noticed that 3x 1920x1080 uses not 3 times the vram that is needed for 1x 1920x1080 but only 2 times , so 2,2 x 2 is 4,4 minus 10% from 1200 > to 1080 is 4gb) so even a 290x is barely enough , i am glad i took the 6gb 7970 instead of the 3gb standard version

don't know about call of duty ghosts but minimal requirements for hard disk is 40gb , and the rumours are that it uses so much space so you can get lots of goodies on your screen , i think that game may also be a vram hog

i just think my point F is something people should know and maybe look at when they are looking for a gpu upgrade

25-10-2013, 05:33:28

ShaunB-91
I won't pretend I know how GPU's perform on 3x 1920x1080 screens, but I'd be personally looking for a Titan with three monitors, might not be needed but multi-monitor, or 3x just acts as a switch in my head to think right go for the top.

25-10-2013, 05:56:17

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
Happy days dude

Price cuts are good, a cheaper 780 is a good thing. Also, if Nvidia cut the price of the 780 then hopefully AMD will drop the price of the 290x as well.
Competition is always good, since we (the consumer) are always the winner. I definitely wouldn't say no to a GTX 780 if it came down in price by like 20% or so.

You're already seeing a lack of it in the high end CPU side of things, ie. Intel pretty much planning to coast on Haswell for at least 2 years, maybe even more.

25-10-2013, 11:52:11

Zaim
Great review Tom, I completely agree with you on this, the fact that a gigabyte GTX 780 WF oc is 479.99 I honestly can't see why you would buy the 290x. Unless of course you're going to water cool it.

I had high hopes for the 290x, performance is good but the cooling is naff. Hopefully third party vendors will release the card with their coolers.

The best value/performance card out there is this imo:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1842

http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyt...X%20780&src=16

Edit: 399.95 for a 7990?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1515

371
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/6gb-x...m_medium=email

If you don't mind a dual gpu then that's one hell of a deal.

25-10-2013, 14:13:52

GoogalyMoogaly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaim View Post
Great review Tom, I completely agree with you on this, the fact that a gigabyte GTX 780 WF oc is 479.99 I honestly can't see why you would buy the 290x. Unless of course you're going to water cool it.

I had high hopes for the 290x, performance is good but the cooling is naff. Hopefully third party vendors will release the card with their coolers.

The best value/performance card out there is this imo:
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1842

http://www.dabs.com/products/gigabyt...X%20780&src=16

Edit: 399.95 for a 7990?
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...56&subcat=1515

371
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/6gb-x...m_medium=email

If you don't mind a dual gpu then that's one hell of a deal.
I hadn't seen the Scan one (without the PSU)!

I will say though that OcUK will deal with the warranty for the full 3 years on the Asus card though (and you get what is basically a 14 day DSR period).

It's also possible to get an MSI (I think) 290X on dabs.com for around 390 with a voucher code (from www.hukd.com).

25-10-2013, 14:21:01

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoogalyMoogaly View Post
It's also possible to get an MSI (I think) 290X on dabs.com for around 390 with a voucher code (from www.hukd.com).
That deal is over

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/msi-...8-dabs-1689718

You can't ignore the 290x at that price though, 90 cheaper than a 780

25-10-2013, 15:02:33

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
That deal is over

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/msi-...8-dabs-1689718

You can't ignore the 290x at that price though, 90 cheaper than a 780
jesus that is a good deal

25-10-2013, 20:44:11

PopcornMachine
Interesting, yet disturbing, to see so much group think in action.

People here need to check other reviews.

26-10-2013, 09:00:58

Rastalovich
Don't understand the 'TTL=nVidia fanboi' business around the 'net. They need to spend more time on OC3D. If he were Vulcan, he'd still bleed red when cut

People looking at this card wrong, imo (looking at it from an enthusiast pov). It has the performance, doesn't have the looks ? (like I'd personally care about that), price at launch is ok for a higher end card.

If you particularly want one - so it get's hot..... be prepared to do something about it then!

My cpu get's hot when I clock the sheet out of it!

Look forward to seening the pro-overclockers getting there hands on them and churning out stats to compare with the 780/Titan. Like to see where the world records come from myself.

26-10-2013, 09:06:14

barnsley
What also bothers me is I saw some comments saying that everyone in OC3D is an Nvidia fanboy. Ummmmm I'm pretty sure we're less fanboy than the majority of sites out there...

26-10-2013, 09:12:04

SieB
To be fair it did look pretty bad in the review video when instead of reviewing the 290x most of the time was spent showing Nvidia cards and during the whole of the conclusion having 2x 780 boxes and a Titan box clearly on display as if he was advertising them.

I know Tom isn't a fanboy, but you can't deny that doing the vid in that way makes it look like he is. The review and points brought up could have been done without including the Nvidia cards and the points about the cooler could still have been made.

26-10-2013, 10:43:58

grassman
His reviews are always like that, You cant do a review without comparisons.

26-10-2013, 11:00:48

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman View Post
His reviews are always like that, You cant do a review without comparisons.
Whether the Nvidia cooler is better or not, the review is for a 290x. The cooler could have been discussed and opinions given on it without throwing three Nvidia cards in there. And there was certainly no reason to have the Nvidia boxes displayed the way they were in the conclusion. Fair enough discuss the differences between the cards and coolers in the conclusion but as for the review itself, it should have been based on how the card and cooler performs without comparisons to Nvidia cards. There is a difference between a review and a comparison.

How do you expect people to respond to something like that?

As I said, I know Tom isn't a fanboy but for other people watching the vid how do you expect them to react to a review about a AMD card with more screen time and talk about Nvidia cards than the actual AMD card itself?

26-10-2013, 11:12:19

looz
If their goal is to dethrone nVidia of course the reviewer should tell if the card meets that goal.

26-10-2013, 11:15:21

grassman
You have a direct cu2.. anyone who has experienced the vacuum will completly understand where hes coming from. AMD deserved to get there asses kicked for it the thing is appalingly bad. Everyone gave them the ok maybe next time approach with the 7xxx series. They failed to do so for 3 generations now. Time for some whipping I think.

26-10-2013, 11:16:23

grassman
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
If their goal is to dethrone nVidia of course the reviewer should tell if the card meets that goal.
With this cooler it does not. Think he was pretty clear. An hour worth of being clear.

26-10-2013, 11:21:36

barnsley
I just think AMD should've paid someone else to design the cooler. I think sapphire or gigabyte could've done a great job on it.

26-10-2013, 11:26:01

looz
Quote:
Originally Posted by grassman View Post
With this cooler it does not. Think he was pretty clear. An hour worth of being clear.
Well that's obvious.

26-10-2013, 11:43:29

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
I just think AMD should've paid someone else to design the cooler. I think sapphire or gigabyte could've done a great job on it.
they tried to be nvidia and this is the result. it really is a shame because now they will still be behind nvidia till 2014, that's already 3/4 of a year behind.

26-10-2013, 11:48:39

looz
Btw, to those who insist that the 95c degrees is safe and doesn't affect the lifetime of the card:
http://www.techpowerup.com/159346/xf...ics-cards.html

26-10-2013, 11:59:40

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
they tried to be nvidia and this is the result. it really is a shame because now they will still be behind nvidia till 2014, that's already 3/4 of a year behind.
how did they try to be nvidia?they have done their own thing like amd always do

26-10-2013, 12:03:56

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
Btw, to those who insist that the 95c degrees is safe and doesn't affect the lifetime of the card:
http://www.techpowerup.com/159346/xf...ics-cards.html

Why did you link old news that has basically nothing to do with the temperatures of the current card?

26-10-2013, 12:29:26

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
how did they try to be nvidia?they have done their own thing like amd always do
with the cooler. the titan cooler is pretty popular and with the reference cooler only release they tried to show that they can do a nice reference cooler as well. didn't work out.

26-10-2013, 12:42:35

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
with the cooler. the titan cooler is pretty popular and with the reference cooler only release they tried to show that they can do a nice reference cooler as well. didn't work out.
and how much do you think that adds to the cost of the card (the titan cooler that is), my guess is a pretty penny to be honest. amd have just pulled themselves out of the red an into the black, gk110 has been around for quite a while people seem to forget that it was supposed to be a 680, and also that amd's hawaii chip is supposed to run at 95c.amd have managed to make a whole new chip and sell it at a decent price, the cost of adding a titan like cooler wouldnt of helped them in the slightest.reference model cards usually get put underwater so the cooler is not that big a thing, you couldnt get a 780 at launch for 450 and that's a fact.

26-10-2013, 12:43:33

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by looz View Post
Btw, to those who insist that the 95c degrees is safe and doesn't affect the lifetime of the card:
http://www.techpowerup.com/159346/xf...ics-cards.html
If 95C is what it's designed for, 95C is what it's designed for.

All high end GPUs are hot and power hungry, you're not going to be getting acceptable framerates at 4K and have the core sitting at room temperature pulling hardly anything from the wall, it just doesn't work like that.

Even the Titan and the GTX 780 (stock versions) run quite hot too, as does the 690 or the 7990 aswell.

26-10-2013, 13:26:45

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
and how much do you think that adds to the cost of the card (the titan cooler that is), my guess is a pretty penny to be honest. amd have just pulled themselves out of the red an into the black, gk110 has been around for quite a while people seem to forget that it was supposed to be a 680, and also that amd's hawaii chip is supposed to run at 95c.amd have managed to make a whole new chip and sell it at a decent price, the cost of adding a titan like cooler wouldnt of helped them in the slightest.reference model cards usually get put underwater so the cooler is not that big a thing, you couldnt get a 780 at launch for 450 and that's a fact.
and you seem to forget that if the 680 would have released as intended AMD would be history by now.
It's not about the reference cooler sucking, it's about AMD making the release reference cooler only. there is no reason i can think of for that other than trying to make their cooler popular.
i don't care if the GPU is made to run at 95c, hotter temps mean that the card will die sooner. you can run a 780 at 95c as well, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
the 780 wasn't 450 quid at launch but that was half a year ago, i bet you that if the 290x would have released at the same time it wouldn't have been 450 quid either, i remember the 7970 launch. AMD can't release their card at a higher price because else nobody would buy it because the 780 currently is the better buy, even for 30 quid more and that is a fact as well.

26-10-2013, 13:34:24

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
and you seem to forget that if the 680 would have released as intended AMD would be history by now.
It's not about the reference cooler sucking, it's about AMD making the release reference cooler only. there is no reason i can think of for that other than trying to make their cooler popular.
i don't care if the GPU is made to run at 95c, hotter temps mean that the card will die sooner. you can run a 780 at 95c as well, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
the 780 wasn't 450 quid at launch but that was half a year ago, i bet you that if the 290x would have released at the same time it wouldn't have been 450 quid either, i remember the 7970 launch. AMD can't release their card at a higher price because else nobody would buy it because the 780 currently is the better buy, even for 30 quid more and that is a fact as well.
Not true.. If it is DESIGNED to run at 95C then the engineers will make sure it runs at 95C without to much voltage leakage; therefore keeping the intended life of the card the same.
Common knowledge but just to help prove it...
Link

26-10-2013, 13:37:35

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
780 currently is the better buy, even for 30 quid more and that is a fact as well.
In terms of temperature and asthetics, yes (espeically with that butt ugly cooler on it, GG AMD). In terms of gaming at high res for example, no. Legit reviews found that it performs better than an overclocked 780 at 4k resolution. For 4k gaming on a single card I'd go for the 290x (normally I'd probably go for a 690/7990). Although arguably if you can afford a 4k monitor you can probably afford noise cancelling headphones .

26-10-2013, 13:38:14

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
AMD can't release their card at a higher price because else nobody would buy it because the 780 currently is the better buy, even for 30 quid more and that is a fact as well.
That's an opinion, not a fact.

Also based on the large demand for the 290X it seems there's a lot of people who either don't care or are willing to deal with the temperature and noise fore the performance it gives.
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32...-out-on-newegg

26-10-2013, 13:40:52

looz
4K might be relevant in 3 years.

26-10-2013, 13:42:28

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
That's an opinion, not a fact.

Also based on the large demand for the 290X it seems there's a lot of people who either don't care or are willing to deal with the temperature and noise fore the performance it gives.
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/32...-out-on-newegg
I have seen a few reviews showing the 290x beating a titan let alone a 780.. so depends on where you go to for reviews.

26-10-2013, 13:42:53

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
and you seem to forget that if the 680 would have released as intended AMD would be history by now.
It's not about the reference cooler sucking, it's about AMD making the release reference cooler only. there is no reason i can think of for that other than trying to make their cooler popular.
i don't care if the GPU is made to run at 95c, hotter temps mean that the card will die sooner. you can run a 780 at 95c as well, just because you can doesn't mean you should.
the 780 wasn't 450 quid at launch but that was half a year ago, i bet you that if the 290x would have released at the same time it wouldn't have been 450 quid either, i remember the 7970 launch. AMD can't release their card at a higher price because else nobody would buy it because the 780 currently is the better buy, even for 30 quid more and that is a fact as well.
i think you missed what i was trying to get across

26-10-2013, 13:42:53

SieB
The card isn't even that loud though, sure it's not as quiet as a 780 but it's not that loud at all.

It's only slightly louder than a 7970 and lets not forget it's a reference cooler.
When aftermarket coolers come out for the 290x not only will it be quieter but it's also gonna be cooler. Not that temps matter that much, as others have said the card is made to run at 95c.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...290x-review/19

26-10-2013, 13:44:30

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
In terms of temperature and asthetics, yes (espeically with that butt ugly cooler on it, GG AMD). In terms of gaming at high res for example, no. Legit reviews found that it performs better than an overclocked 780 at 4k resolution. For 4k gaming on a single card I'd go for the 290x (normally I'd probably go for a 690/7990). Although arguably if you can afford a 4k monitor you can probably afford noise cancelling headphones .
why the hell do people keep riding the god damn 4k train, it's utterly irrelevant, that's like buying a car for it's diving capabilities. not relevant for the foreseeable future.
temps are worse, aesthetics are worse and no aftermarket coolers which allow the 780 to blast the 290x, someone who pays 450 quid for a card can't tell me he can't find those extra 30 quid for a better card.

26-10-2013, 13:44:39

looz
But even at 95c the card has to throttle the frequency.

26-10-2013, 13:45:15

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
The card isn't even that loud though, sure it's not as quiet as a 780 but it's not that loud at all.

It's only slightly louder than a 7970 and lets not forget it's a reference cooler.
When aftermarket coolers come out for the 290x not only will it be quieter but it's also gonna be cooler. Not that temps matter that much, as others have said the card is made to run at 95c.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...290x-review/19
Also the fact that EK already has waterblocks for them.

26-10-2013, 13:45:44

Silver Sparrow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
amd have just pulled themselves out of the red an into the black, gk110 has been around for quite a while people seem to forget that it was supposed to be a 680,
Off topic but... any links to information that this may have been the case? I can't fathom why nVidia would release a high grade, supercomputer/workstation architecture for us puny high-end mainstream users. Makes zero financial or business sense.

The Titan was simply nVidia's method of swinging their c**ks about AMD with hardware not up to grade for either workstation or industry orders, i.e Quadro and the Titan Supercomputer. Also they knew AMD couldn't respond quickly (10 months!), nice one nVidia. However gk110 for 680 grade GPU hmm... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

26-10-2013, 13:49:21

NeverBackDown
So a gk110 a 680? Yet originally a 660ti was made as a 680 and then they realized the 7xxx series was too fast so they upped up their game. I highly doubt all these sudden "GK110 was supposed to be a 680! AMD is lucky!" comments are real.. fanboy talk...

Why can't people just have a constructive conversation?

26-10-2013, 13:52:58

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sparrow View Post
Off topic but... any links to information that this may have been the case? I can't fathom why nVidia would release a high grade, supercomputer/workstation architecture for us puny high-end mainstream users. Makes zero financial or business sense.

The Titan was simply nVidia's method of swinging their c**ks about AMD with hardware not up to grade for either workstation or industry orders, i.e Quadro and the Titan Supercomputer. Also they knew AMD couldn't respond quickly (10 months!), nice one nVidia. However gk110 for 680 grade GPU hmm... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/384835/a...anks-to-the-pc

26-10-2013, 13:57:36

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
why the hell do people keep riding the god damn 4k train, it's utterly irrelevant, that's like buying a car for it's diving capabilities. not relevant for the foreseeable future.
temps are worse, aesthetics are worse and no aftermarket coolers which allow the 780 to blast the 290x, someone who pays 450 quid for a card can't tell me he can't find those extra 30 quid for a better card.
But some people still buy cars for the driving experience funnily enough...

Also which cards exactly blast the 290x? I can imagine that fantastic MSI lightning card can do the trick (although it is almost 100 more...) but consider the card that the 290x beat was the EVGA SC model, currently still quite a bit more.

I'd rather compare performance when the 290x's drivers are more "matured" myself, it's been the case with AMD for a while (point in hand the 7970), the drivers are bum at first but improve and improve until the card does very well for the price. I should probably make myself clear, at the moment I agree that the 780 is a better buy but 6 months down the line I very much doubt it will be.

26-10-2013, 14:00:01

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
So a gk110 a 680? Yet originally a 660ti was made as a 680 and then they realized the 7xxx series was too fast so they upped up their game. I highly doubt all these sudden "GK110 was supposed to be a 680! AMD is lucky!" comments are real.. fanboy talk...

Why can't people just have a constructive conversation?
as far as i know the gk110 was suppose to be a 680, but amd's cards were not up to snuff an they held it back. i thought that was quite common knowledge

26-10-2013, 14:00:06

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
temps are worse, aesthetics are worse and no aftermarket coolers which allow the 780 to blast the 290x, someone who pays 450 quid for a card can't tell me he can't find those extra 30 quid for a better card.
I must say...

Your rather persistent antagonism towards AMD in this thread is slightly amusing. You don't like the 290X, that's fine, but if there wasn't any competition in the high-end GPU market, you'd have nVidia charging 1000+ for all their high end GPUs. Competition is always good, since we (the consumer) are always the winner.

26-10-2013, 14:00:52

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
But some people still buy cars for the driving experience funnily enough...

Also which cards exactly blast the 290x? I can imagine that fantastic MSI lightning card can do the trick (although it is almost 100 more...) but considering the card that the 290x beat was the EVGA SC model. I'd rather compare performance when the 290x's drivers are more "matured" myself, it's been the case with AMD for a while (point in hand the 7970), the drivers are bum at first but improve and improve until the card does very well for the price. I should probably make myself clear, at the moment I agree that the 780 is a better buy but 6 months down the line I very much doubt it will be.
diving. not driving.

the msi gaming beats the 290x quite comfortably for 30 quid more.
6 months down the line is too late to make the 290x a success anymore, then the 780 will have reigned for an entire year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
I must say...

Your rather persistent antagonism towards AMD in this thread is slightly amusing. You don't like the 290X, that's fine, but if there wasn't any competition in the high-end GPU market, you'd have nVidia charging 1000+ for all their high end GPUs. Competition is always good, since we (the consumer) are always the winner.
antagonism? i had a 6870 which was a great card, i'm not an AMD hater i just won't celebrate something that is half a year late to the plate and still doesn't take the crown. my concern here is that AMD did not deliver on the 290x which is bad for the consumer because at the moment we are steering right into your 1000+ situation because it is up to nvidia to take the monopoly if they like. i hope they will do the same as with the 6xx series to keep amd in the game.
the 290x should have wrecked the 780 and it did not, what is wrong with you people to still think it's a gift from heaven.
/edit
oh and btw, i would recommend the 280x to anyone over the 770 at the moment.

26-10-2013, 14:01:53

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Sparrow View Post
Off topic but... any links to information that this may have been the case? I can't fathom why nVidia would release a high grade, supercomputer/workstation architecture for us puny high-end mainstream users. Makes zero financial or business sense.

The Titan was simply nVidia's method of swinging their c**ks about AMD with hardware not up to grade for either workstation or industry orders, i.e Quadro and the Titan Supercomputer. Also they knew AMD couldn't respond quickly (10 months!), nice one nVidia. However gk110 for 680 grade GPU hmm... talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
The fact that people think the 680 should have been the 660 ti make me laugh.

Do people seriously think Nvidia would release a card with a 100% performance increase over the previous mid range card (560ti) for ~200?

Do you not realize how stupid that sounds?

That whole rumour about someone from nvidia saying they looked at the 7970 and said "is that it" supposedly came from a guy who was told by a guy. The name of this misterious person from Nvidia has never been mentioned and niether has there been any creditability of the story actually being true.

Nvidia would be shooting themselves in the foot by releasing cards with 100x the perfomance for the same price as the preious gen. Just think how much money they would lose out on the previous gen.

Whenever has there been a 100% performance increase within one generation? oh thats right, never

26-10-2013, 14:05:49

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
The fact that people think the 680 should have been the 660 ti make me laugh.

Do people seriously think Nvidia would release a card with a 100% performance increase over the previous mid range card (560ti) for ~200?

Do you not realize how stupid that sounds?

That whole rumour about someone from nvidia saying they looked at the 7970 and said "is that it" supposedly came from a guy who was told by a guy. The name of this misterious person from Nvidia has never been mentioned and niether has there been any creditability of the story actually being true.

Nvidia would be shooting themselves in the foot by releasing cards with 100x the perfomance for the same price as the preious gen. Just think how much money they would lose out on the previous gen.

Whenever has there been a 100% performance increase within one generation? oh thats right, never
no mate thats called buisness why but out your best now, and have to spend more to do another series, when your oponent ain't pushing your mid-range gear???

26-10-2013, 14:07:43

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
no mate thats called buisness why but out your best now, and have to spend more to do another series, when your oponent ain't pushing your mid-range gear???
It's called delusion.

26-10-2013, 14:08:12

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
It's called delusion.
yeah sure

26-10-2013, 14:08:46

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
the 290x should have wrecked the 780 and it did not, what is wrong with you people to still think it's a gift from heaven.
it does in many reviews. I have seen a review where it tops on a titan for most of the time.. Look at all reviews. Not just one.

26-10-2013, 14:10:00

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
it does in many reviews. I have seen a review where it tops on a titan for most of the time.. Look at all reviews. Not just one.
agreed +1

26-10-2013, 14:11:52

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
my concern here is that AMD did not deliver on the 290x which is bad for the consumer because at the moment we are steering right into your 1000+ situation because it is up to nvidia to take the monopoly if they like. i hope they will do the same as with the 6xx series to keep amd in the game.
I'm not following, as that's very odd logic right there, how does that work?

If anything, the 290X, thanks to its performance, far lower price (relative to the Titan), and great sales (so-far) is steering the market away from the ~1000 EUR/USD/GBP range.

26-10-2013, 14:14:07

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
diving. not driving.

the msi gaming beats the 290x quite comfortably for 30 quid more.
6 months down the line is too late to make the 290x a success anymore, then the 780 will have reigned for an entire year.
Whoops I misread ^^. Well maybe we'll see after Christmas then? I guess that'll be a better time.

I doubt the 1000+ gpu market will ever fully take off. There are simply not enough people willing to spend that much on a computer, let alone a graphics card. The mid-high market is where its at (e.g. 270-280x,7870-7970,660-770)

26-10-2013, 14:20:34

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
yeah sure
Do you honestly believe that Nvidia even if they could would release cards with 100x the performance?

AMD and Nvidia have been around equal performance in the GPU market for years trading blows between generations.
Do you really believe that all of a sudden Nvidia magically managed to produces cards with a 100% performance increase and AMD some how managed to slip that far behind?

Does that make sense at all? No it really doesn't, at all.

At the time the 6xx series were being made Nvidia were having production problems and were struggling to get the cards out.
During this supposed time of Nvidia not being impressed by the 7970 they also magically found time to change all of the packaging, change SKUs, reschedule things and all the rest of it?

There is no way on earth that the 680 was originally intended to be the 660ti.
Look at all the money they would have lost out on with the previous gen cards, which were still being made and shipped at the time.

There are many other factors, just wanting to believe that Nvidia somehow has this magical 100% leap in performance is not one of them.

As I said before, there is no proof what so ever to the claim of the 680 supposedly being the 660ti. All that started from a rumour that one guy heard from another guy that Nvidia were not impressed with the 7970.

26-10-2013, 14:32:02

barnsley
-quick out of topic point-

I don't think I've seen the community this divided in a long time. Kinda surreal. We normally have a bit of a disagreement over things but this has been going on fo' dayyyyys.

26-10-2013, 14:40:08

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
-quick out of topic point-

I don't think I've seen the community this divided in a long time. Kinda surreal. We normally have a bit of a disagreement over things but this has been going on fo' dayyyyys.
the only thing i disagree on is people flaming on this card. for one its only going to get cheaper, an secondly there ain't any aftermaket coolers on them yet. everyone seem to want to to set the ship on fire, before its even been tested to be sea worthy.

26-10-2013, 14:44:47

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
I'm not following, as that's very odd logic right there, how does that work?

If anything, the 290X, thanks to its performance, far lower price (relative to the Titan), and great sales (so-far) is steering the market away from the ~1000 EUR/USD/GBP range.
comparing it to the titan again, the titan isn't part of the 7xx range and therefore shouldn't be compared to the 780 or 290x. the price isn't far lower, it's 30 quid lower than a card with an aftermarket cooler which will outperform the card by far. 6 months, not on par, won't be on par till 2014, nvidia can crush them with the next series.

26-10-2013, 14:56:09

Jeff_s510
The big thing imo, AMD released there new flagship card, which will trade blows with the 780. It is about on par, and MAYBE even 5% faster or so in some situations. But this is a new gpu from AMD, and the card it is trading blows with what is a now an older GPU from Nvidia. The 290X should have been a clear winner to the 780, and it wasn't. AMD is not going to hold the crown this time around. When they launched the 7970, they did hold the crown, it was a much faster card compared to the 580. And the 7970 held its own against the 680! The new R9 290x is only on par with Nvidia's 780, which will soon be replaced by the 780 Ti. and yes, this is bad for us, the consumers. If the 290x had been a clear winner, then Nvidia would have to step up there game and launch something amazing to beat out the 290X, and also keep the price under control. But instead they can get away with launching something a little faster than the current 780, and still increase the price a little.

26-10-2013, 15:08:53

CapitanoMal
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
-quick out of topic point-

I don't think I've seen the community this divided in a long time. Kinda surreal. We normally have a bit of a disagreement over things but this has been going on fo' dayyyyys.
yeah I love OC3D even though I lurk more than post for the unbiased and calm community. Too little of both of those going on in here.

26-10-2013, 16:17:53

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
comparing it to the titan again, the titan isn't part of the 7xx range and therefore shouldn't be compared to the 780 or 290x. the price isn't far lower, it's 30 quid lower than a card with an aftermarket cooler which will outperform the card by far. 6 months, not on par, won't be on par till 2014, nvidia can crush them with the next series.
6 months is some arbitrary figure you've pulled out of the air. Is nVidia's next GPU coming in 6 months? If you're privy to nVidia's internal schedules ala Tape-Out, 1st Silicon, Final Silicon dates etc. for their "Maxwell" architecture, not to mention TSMC's 20nm Planar Process schedule, lets hear it, because that would be quite interesting.

Also the whole "nVidia will crush.. blah... blah..." is just an opinion on your part, you've no evidence to back up those claims.

And yes, you can directly compare the R9 290X to the Titan. It performs largely similar (even better at times) according to the vast majority of reviewers. Example:

(Notice how the 290X slightly out-performs the Titan in this chart, while costing significantly less)

http://i.imgur.com/ljIxnK2.gif

[Source]

26-10-2013, 16:32:22

looz
That doesn't make comparing it to Titan any less silly. It used to be a card for people who lacked the patience to wait for 780. Now it's either for epeen or for people who need the extra cuda cores and memory (not many)...

It competes with 780, and that's it. And while 780 delivers less fps per dollar, at least the reference cooler works.

26-10-2013, 16:50:15

Zoot
I'd be curious why it's "silly", charts like that don't look "silly" to me. They're pretty clear in what they're saying.

Also the dominant trend is a direct comparison to the Titan. I'll just leave these here, because we're devolving into semantics now.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...290x-review/20
Quote:
So seeing AMD performance competitive with GTX Titan and GTX 780 with their own single-GPU card is absolutely a breath of fresh air.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html
Quote:
AMD may have taken a while to get to this point but with the R9 290X, they finally have a viable competitor against NVIDIAs GTX 780 and TITAN.
http://techreport.com/review/25509/a...rd-reviewed/13
Quote:
he Radeon R9 290X is a bit faster than the GeForce GTX 780 and costs a hundred bucks less. Beats the Titan for nearly half the price, too. So yeah. AMD has substantially reduced the cost of graphics processing power in this category, and it has grabbed the overall performance crown from Nvidia in the process.
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/16...product-line/4
Quote:
And with that, its game, set, and match for the GTX Titan. To be fair, Titan itself was mostly undercut by the GTX 780, which offered about 85% of the performance for 70% of the price, but with the R9 290X coming in at $549 a full $100 less than the GTX 780 the Titans reign is finished.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...w,3650-35.html
Quote:
But when it comes to gaming performance, this card has little trouble trouncing its primary competition, GeForce GTX 780, and even Nvidias GeForce GTX Titan in a number of casesboth of which are substantially more expensive boards.
http://www.techspot.com/review/727-r...0x/page11.html
Quote:
Some thought it was impossible, but there's no doubt the Radeon R9 290X is every bit as fast as the mighty GeForce GTX Titan.
Etc. Etc.

26-10-2013, 17:05:24

looz
It is silly since 780 is trading blows with Titan and costs little more than half of Titan's price.

Basically when people go "OMFG TITAN FOR HALF THE PRICE"... We already had that.

26-10-2013, 17:17:23

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
6 months is some arbitrary figure you've pulled out of the air. Is nVidia's next GPU coming in 6 months? If you're privy to nVidia's internal schedules ala Tape-Out, 1st Silicon, Final Silicon dates etc. for their "Maxwell" architecture, not to mention TSMC's 20nm Planar Process schedule, lets hear it, because that would be quite interesting.

Also the whole "nVidia will crush.. blah... blah..." is just an opinion on your part, you've no evidence to back up those claims.

And yes, you can directly compare the R9 290X to the Titan. It performs largely similar (even better at times) according to the vast majority of reviewers. Example:

(Notice how the 290X slightly out-performs the Titan in this chart, while costing significantly less)

http://i.imgur.com/ljIxnK2.gif

[Source]
6 months late. not 6 months till next series, even though that is likely as well. and if you are seriously still comparing the 290x with the titan then you should probably watch TTL's vid on it because it makes no sense.
notice how the 780 outperforms both the titan and the 290x.

26-10-2013, 17:17:29

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
I'd be curious why it's "silly", charts like that don't look "silly" to me. They're pretty clear in what they're saying.

Also the dominant trend is a direct comparison to the Titan. I'll just leave these here, because we're devolving into semantics now.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...290x-review/20
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html
http://techreport.com/review/25509/a...rd-reviewed/13
http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/16...product-line/4
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...w,3650-35.html
http://www.techspot.com/review/727-r...0x/page11.html


Etc. Etc.
I don't take any of these sites seriously when doing comparisons between the Titan and the R9 290X. Most of them have not seen a Titan since it's launch day and that was a long time ago. If you are going to compare cards you need to have them both available at the same time under the same conditions.

26-10-2013, 17:35:34

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
I don't take any of these sites seriously when doing comparisons between the Titan and the R9 290X. Most of them have not seen a Titan since it's launch day and that was a long time ago. If you are going to compare cards you need to have them both available at the same time under the same conditions.
Anandtech is one of the most repitable and trust worthy sites on the net. Hardwarecanucks and Tomshardware are very repitable and trustworthy also.

Guru3D is another one
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...chmarks,1.html

26-10-2013, 18:05:13

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
Anandtech is one of the most repitable and trust worthy sites on the net. Hardwarecanucks and Tomshardware are very repitable and trustworthy also.

Guru3D is another one
http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages...chmarks,1.html

They are also totally useless for comparing cards as often the cards on there have used drivers that are a year or more out of date.

26-10-2013, 18:10:05

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
They are also totally useless for comparing cards as often the cards on there have used drivers that are a year or more out of date.
wasn't anandtech the site where the little kids call each other names on the forums?

26-10-2013, 18:14:33

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
wasn't anandtech the site where the little kids call each other names on the forums?
I don't know about that, but I have seen plenty of them getting into heated debates after quoting benches from there and then finding out things have moved on in the last year or 18 months.

26-10-2013, 18:19:17

SieB
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
They are also totally useless for comparing cards as often the cards on there have used drivers that are a year or more out of date.
Well, that isn't true seen as the older cards are benched on recent games like Bioshock Infinite and the likes.

Look at the benchmarks for the cards, you can see that they have been run on recent games.

26-10-2013, 18:59:28

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
6 months late. not 6 months till next series, even though that is likely as well. and if you are seriously still comparing the 290x with the titan then you should probably watch TTL's vid on it because it makes no sense.
notice how the 780 outperforms both the titan and the 290x.
You keep saying "It makes no sense", however you've yet to explain that claim or rather offer a proper counter-argument. Is that beyond you?

Anyway, I think I'm done replying to you in this thread. If you're willing to pointedly dismiss a whole plethora of extremely reputable PC hardware reviewers while just providing dismissive blank statements with no proper content or counter-argument, then there's no point even reading your posts, let alone replying to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
I don't take any of these sites seriously when doing comparisons between the Titan and the R9 290X. Most of them have not seen a Titan since it's launch day and that was a long time ago. If you are going to compare cards you need to have them both available at the same time under the same conditions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
They are also totally useless for comparing cards as often the cards on there have used drivers that are a year or more out of date.
Actually, proper reviewing practice is to ensure the only thing that's different in the test systems is the component under review, which in this case is the GPU. I'm too lazy to go and check all the other R9 290X reviews, but if what you're saying is true, that invalidates the whole lot of them.

I find that very hard to believe. I think I'll trust all said authors, given their long standing track record rather than dismissive statements providing no examples/evidence of what they're claiming.

26-10-2013, 19:14:33

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
yeah I love OC3D even though I lurk more than post for the unbiased and calm community. Too little of both of those going on in here.
Yeah this is a pretty rare occasion, don't take it to heart. OC3D as a whole is probably one of the most unbiast out there due to alot of us having differing opinions. If OC3D was bias we'd all be saying the same thing however we're all backing up our differing points with facts and figures (mostly).

Also, the majority of opinions in OC3D have been formed from experience, which is more than most people out there. It's quite hard to be positive about a company when you've had a bad experience (I never use anything by EVGA after my experience with their products).

26-10-2013, 19:15:05

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Actually, proper reviewing practice is to ensure the only thing that's different in the test systems is the component under review, which in this case is the GPU. I'm too lazy to go and check all the other R9 290X reviews, but if what you're saying is true, that invalidates the whole lot of them.

I find that very hard to believe. I think I'll trust all said authors, given their long standing track record rather than dismissive statements providing no examples/evidence of what they're claiming.
Ask any of these review sites how many of the cards they use for comparison they actually have to hand when they do a review and the answer is very few.

Even if they had the cards the amount of work required to constantly retest every time a new driver came out would be a nightmare.

26-10-2013, 19:30:04

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
Ask any of these review sites how many of the cards they use for comparison they actually have to hand when they do a review and the answer is very few.

Even if they had the cards the amount of work required to constantly retest every time a new driver came out would be a nightmare.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/7457/t...-290x-review/7

Quote:
Video Drivers: NVIDIA Release 331.58
AMD Catalyst 13.11 Beta v1
AMD Catalyst 13.11 Beta v5
http://www.geforce.co.uk/drivers/results/68547
Quote:
Version 331.58 - WHQL
Release Date
Mon Oct 21, 2013
Anandtech used the latest nVidia driver, I'm willing to bet the others are the same too.

26-10-2013, 19:39:05

barnsley
So if they use the initial release drivers for the 780 and compare them to the initial release drivers of the 290x, surely that would be fair as both drivers have arguably been created for the same purpose (reviewing etc). While I know that would be unrealistic (the 780 is an older card thus the drivers are more mature) it surely gives the cards equal playing fields. Personally I'm all for using the current drivers as it could show the various comparisons if you went out and bought the card today I just suddenly thought of that and thought I should share it.



my final opinion on the matter of this card is it'll be like the 7970, it'll start off with poor drivers then a few months later be a fantastic card (heck, some 280x can trade blows with the 780, not bad for the price at all). If the 780 had a crap cooler and ran at very high temperatures it probably still would sell well, much like the 290x -suprisingly- has. I expect whichever company comes with an aftermarket cooler for it (as in one you buy separately) will do very well.

Personally I'd rather get a card that has more mature drivers now, hence why I am getting the 7990. I know some of you laughed when you saw the words "7990" and "drivers" but hey, laugh with me if it messes up ;P.

26-10-2013, 19:54:07

NeverBackDown
Here's a fact.

780 and Titan in nearly all of reviews are using latest and mature drivers.. AMD is using beta drivers that only support the R7/9 cards with no optimizations.
Agreed? Good! Not that you can't argue.. it is a fact.

Now you have the 2 kings of the world who are mature against some new guy on the block without any maturity and looking to top the 2 kings..

Next all cards are benched using latest and greatest drivers(290x being unmature again and also unoptimized. again) and in the vast reviews, the new guy, 290x, wins in vast majority of games. It beats a 780 or matches it. It beats a titan, matches it, and loses to it varying on game/software.

This is all true, 290x wins, and if you can make an argument i would be very surprised.

Many of you instantly took Toms side(which is understandable) as did i. I however looked more into the situation as i was baffled at toms results... I came up with my conclusion as stated above. Tom has his review. Tom's review is legit and are his results; I do not question him or argue against him. He can only go off by what he got... BUT from my point of view and many other review sites the 290x is the fastest card around give or take a few to a titan while maintaining a huge price to performance ratio advantage...

Edit: Linus said he is receiving a DCU2 from Asus in about 6 weeks in his last livestream.. Maybe aftermarket cards are not that far off? Then maybe that can prove to everyone how it can stretch its legs.

Also EK already has waterblocks which are available to consumers. Just buying one of those blocks would then be quite a Raw Power vs Raw Power vs a watercooled 780/Titan.

26-10-2013, 19:56:44

CapitanoMal
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
(I never use anything by EVGA after my experience with their products).
I know what you mean, it's just strange to see the normally calm forums so divided over something. I also know what you mean about EVGA products... I've never purchased ANYTHING EVGA, but I absolutely cringe at the idea of putting something of their's in my system because of the horror stories I've heard.

26-10-2013, 19:58:02

Bartacus
^ I agree with ALL of this (what NeverBackDown said). AMD boosts game performance with every driver release, so IMHO the 290x will only get better. If it can hang with a 780/Titan NOW, and that will improve will every driver revision, things will only get better as time goes on.

Some folks in here are writing the 290x off a bit too quickly I think.

26-10-2013, 20:01:57

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
I know what you mean, it's just strange to see the normally calm forums so divided over something.
I am trying to be constructive.. seems not to be working. Very unfortunate to be honest.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartacus View Post
^ I agree with ALL of this (what NeverBackDown said). AMD boosts game performance with every driver release, so IMHO the 290x will only get better. If it can hang with a 780/Titan NOW, and that will improve will every driver revision, things will only get better as time goes on.

Some folks in here are writing the 290x off a bit too quickly I think.
I agree. After my last post i will probably get the fanboy status but to be honest i think anyone who took a side in this thread is being a fanboy.. Hopefully it will all simmer down into something constructive.

26-10-2013, 20:13:33

Bartacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
I agree. After my last post i will probably get the fanboy status but to be honest i think anyone who took a side in this thread is being a fanboy.. Hopefully it will all simmer down into something constructive.
EVERYONE in this thread will be labelled fan boy, if they haven't already. With these arguments, something constructive rarely comes out of them. If there's a lesson to be learned here it would be: NEVER jump on the latest offering from either side. ALWAYS have patience and wait, as things only get better after release. The major whiners are usually the people who pre-order this stuff (BAD IDEA imho). ALWAYS wait 2 months after a major hardware release, if not LONGER. It's in your best interests to have patience. Prices always drop. Drivers always get better. Patience is key.

26-10-2013, 20:14:17

NeverBackDown
Patience is a virtue after all.

26-10-2013, 20:15:16

barnsley
I've tried to not sound like a fanboy thus far, although I'm pretty sure some people have considered me a AMD fanboy for some time due to some reason or another... I've just felt that most people in this thread denounced the card before it had a chance and at the end of the day if AMD do nothing with it I won't be best pleased but somehow I feel like they won't do what they've done to the FX processors, aka give up and release a few overpriced practical jokes (9590 and the 9370).


Also, I do kind of feel glad not preordering the card. I actually had one in my basket on overclockers for a while but decided against it, now at this rate i'll probably buy the 7990 around december/january time if they don't announce anything about aftermarket coolers for the 290x. Heck if they have a decent price reduction on the particular 780 I want (gainward phantom 780) I'll snap one up . Man that card looks good.

26-10-2013, 20:15:34

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Also EK already has waterblocks which are available to consumers. Just buying one of those blocks would then be quite a Raw Power vs Raw Power vs a watercooled 780/Titan.
Why stop at one v one on water when you can do four v four on water.

I hope no one thinks I am a fanboy either.

26-10-2013, 20:18:20

Bartacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
Why stop at one v one on water when you can do four v four on water.

I hope no one thinks I am a fanboy either.
If you don't PM me a link to your build log when that crap goes down, I will hunt you down!!! EK quad-290x bridge is already out, along with some very nice looking blocks to go with them.

26-10-2013, 20:21:00

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartacus View Post
If you don't PM me a link to your build log when that crap goes down, I will hunt you down!!! EK quad-290x bridge is already out, along with some very nice looking blocks to go with them.
The blocks, bridge, rads etc are all on order along with a RIVE black edition. Will also be using two corsair 1200i PSUs.

26-10-2013, 20:28:47

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartacus View Post
If you don't PM me a link to your build log when that crap goes down, I will hunt you down!!! EK quad-290x bridge is already out, along with some very nice looking blocks to go with them.
EK is getting serious about the 290x lol..
Wonder if XSPC,AlphaCool,Koolance, Heatkiller, etc. are bringing out any?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
The blocks, bridge, rads etc are all on order along with a RIVE black edition. Will also be using two corsair 1200i PSUs.
Is that sarcasm? If not then i seriously want to see that!

26-10-2013, 20:28:58

Bartacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
The blocks, bridge, rads etc are all on order along with a RIVE black edition. Will also be using two corsair 1200i PSUs.
Holy crap dude, you do realize that is PSU overkill right? I run 2 7950s, 2 D5 pumps at full speed, 4 HDDs, 2 SSDs, a dozen fans, lots of LEDs, all on a single Corsair AX750, and my PSU fan doesn't even turn unless I'm gaming.

I'm assuming you know all about this and are just going for crazy overkill though. In that regard, I salute you sir.

26-10-2013, 20:37:57

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
You keep saying "It makes no sense", however you've yet to explain that claim or rather offer a proper counter-argument. Is that beyond you?

Anyway, I think I'm done replying to you in this thread. If you're willing to pointedly dismiss a whole plethora of extremely reputable PC hardware reviewers while just providing dismissive blank statements with no proper content or counter-argument, then there's no point even reading your posts, let alone replying to them.
it is pointless because the 780 outperforms the titan! so nvidia has a better card for less money than the titan as well, the 780 is the competitor, not the god damn titan. we've gone over this at least 10 times in this threat and TTL dedicated a whole damn video to it.
i really don't see what's to argue about the 290x release being a failure, i am not saying that the chip can't perform, it's AMD holding it back with the cooler which is terrible as every reviewer agrees, if they wouldn't keep the release reference cooler only then i would have nothing bad to say but the huge delay they had, but at the moment buying a 290x is madness if you aren't going to watercool it which the majority of people won't do and which kills the "it's cheaper" argument.

26-10-2013, 22:12:56

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bartacus View Post
Holy crap dude, you do realize that is PSU overkill right? I run 2 7950s, 2 D5 pumps at full speed, 4 HDDs, 2 SSDs, a dozen fans, lots of LEDs, all on a single Corsair AX750, and my PSU fan doesn't even turn unless I'm gaming.

I'm assuming you know all about this and are just going for crazy overkill though. In that regard, I salute you sir.
The power draw on four R9 290Xs all overvolted and overclocked will be over 1400watts plus an i7 hexcore that can use about 350watts on it's own overclocked, the only option is to use two PSUs.

The PSU on my Titan rig can handle peaks of 1650watts but when running Vantage it sounds like it is in pain.

26-10-2013, 22:59:52

Bartacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
The power draw on four R9 290Xs all overvolted and overclocked will be over 1400watts plus an i7 hexcore that can use about 350watts on it's own overclocked, the only option is to use two PSUs.

The PSU on my Titan rig can handle peaks of 1650watts but when running Vantage it sounds like it is in pain.
LOL! I had no idea the draw was that severe. I stand corrected!

27-10-2013, 07:06:36

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
it is pointless because the 780 outperforms the titan! so nvidia has a better card for less money than the titan as well, the 780 is the competitor, not the god damn titan.
That bolded part isn't true.

I agree that some overclocked 780 custom versions do better the Titan. However, the stock standard 780 is slightly behind the stock standard reference Titan, not by a massive margin, but there is margin all the same.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/827?vs=764 (Notice how the Titan is ahead in everything)

So according to the vast majority of the Hardware enthsiast community, who all can't be lying or using illegitimate reviewing practise:
R9 290X > GTX Titan > GTX 780

Anyway, enough semantics, believe what you like.

27-10-2013, 07:16:34

barnsley
At the end of the day guys, we can all agree that the Titan is the ultimate E-peen 'card and no matter how much you like Nvidia/AMD you have to admit it is a waste of money. We should all be encouraging both AMD and Nvidia to do this, make excellent bang for buck cards so that we all win and can work on overclocking the eff out of our cards and then argue over the results then. At the moment two 760s (I think) and 2 270x s can out perform one of these cards for less, surely we should all be getting those? I also saw a 690 going for around 450 on overclockers as well.

27-10-2013, 07:46:59

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
At the end of the day guys, we can all agree that the Titan is the ultimate E-peen 'card and no matter how much you like Nvidia/AMD you have to admit it is a waste of money. We should all be encouraging both AMD and Nvidia to do this, make excellent bang for buck cards so that we all win and can work on overclocking the eff out of our cards and then argue over the results then. At the moment two 760s (I think) and 2 270x s can out perform one of these cards for less, surely we should all be getting those? I also saw a 690 going for around 450 on overclockers as well.
yea the titan is mad money, those extra 400 quid or whatever the difference between the 780 and the titan is these days are only there for the titan badge. but i'd still rather have a single GPU card than a dual GPU card or two mid range cards in SLi, mainly because i got to really dig matx builds.

27-10-2013, 08:01:11

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
yea the titan is mad money, those extra 400 quid or whatever the difference between the 780 and the titan is these days are only there for the titan badge. but i'd still rather have a single GPU card than a dual GPU card or two mid range cards in SLi, mainly because i got to really dig matx builds.
+1 on matx builds, there is something damn cool about having a tiny pc that is more powerful than most PCs. Also you can kind of get away with using dual GPU cads in matx builds, its just the heat can be a real issue.

27-10-2013, 08:05:15

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
+1 on matx builds, there is something damn cool about having a tiny pc that is more powerful than most PCs. Also you can kind of get away with using dual GPU cads in matx builds, its just the heat can be a real issue.
SLi shouldn't be a problem as soon as you got a waterloop going, even though watercooling 2x gpu + cpu in an matx case is kinda borderline. but i wouldn't do it anyways, if i had 1000 euros for GPUs i'd rather buy a single card this year and a new one next year than two cards now, less issues, a card like a 780/290x performs well enough for pretty much everything and the matx rig looks cleaner.

27-10-2013, 09:15:26

Greenback
I don't understand all the fuss over Tom's review he says this card performs just as good as the 780 which he also says can out perform the titan.
His only reason as far as I can tell for recommending the 780 over this card is the overclock capabilities (which other reviews that have been linked here say the same) and the lack of 3rd part coolers because the reference 1 is loud which again another review linked here said sounds like a jet turbine.
So all in all it's a good card up there with anything NVidia has to offer, But depending on preferences you may want to watercool it or wait for 3rd party coolers. just my 2 peneth

27-10-2013, 12:07:36

GoogalyMoogaly
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
Is that sarcasm? If not then i seriously want to see that!
You've not met Kaapstad before have you?

This is the guy with 4 watercooled Titans on a RIVE with watercooled 3930K/3960X/3970X (I think he has all 3 not sure which is in his Titan rig).
I believe he also has an X79 rig with 2 690s and another rig (also x79?) with 2 or 3 7970s in.

Frankly I'd think he's being sarcastic if he said he was only getting 2 290Xs...

Most of the review sites stick these card in an existing system, Kaap just builds a new system for each card (or set of 4 cards).

And this is one reason I like Kaap, he usually gives his opinion based on his experience, where as so many people give their opinions based on information they've read off a website. Is Kaap as scientific as all the review sites, maybe not, but at least he gives information obtained 1st hand rather than reconstituted 2nd hand information passed off as his own.
(I'm not having a go at anyone in particular here, just forum users in general, myself included)

27-10-2013, 12:19:03

Bartacus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
The power draw on four R9 290Xs all overvolted and overclocked will be over 1400watts plus an i7 hexcore that can use about 350watts on it's own overclocked, the only option is to use two PSUs.

The PSU on my Titan rig can handle peaks of 1650watts but when running Vantage it sounds like it is in pain.
I'm not a religious man at all, but I think you just became my new god.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
+1 on matx builds, there is something damn cool about having a tiny pc that is more powerful than most PCs. Also you can kind of get away with using dual GPU cads in matx builds, its just the heat can be a real issue.
My mATX board is in a Case Labs M8. Who you calling tiny?!?! With an Asus ROG board, you can more than "get away" with dual GPUs. That platform is actually PERFECT for it. It makes no sense to spend more on the bigger boards if you only want 2 GPUs. Asus Gene boards suite the task perfectly.

27-10-2013, 12:40:30

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoogalyMoogaly View Post
You've not met Kaapstad before have you?

This is the guy with 4 watercooled Titans on a RIVE with watercooled 3930K/3960X/3970X (I think he has all 3 not sure which is in his Titan rig).
I believe he also has an X79 rig with 2 690s and another rig (also x79?) with 2 or 3 7970s in.

Frankly I'd think he's being sarcastic if he said he was only getting 2 290Xs...

Most of the review sites stick these card in an existing system, Kaap just builds a new system for each card (or set of 4 cards).

And this is one reason I like Kaap, he usually gives his opinion based on his experience, where as so many people give their opinions based on information they've read off a website. Is Kaap as scientific as all the review sites, maybe not, but at least he gives information obtained 1st hand rather than reconstituted 2nd hand information passed off as his own.
(I'm not having a go at anyone in particular here, just forum users in general, myself included)
How does one afford all that hardware? That's insane

27-10-2013, 15:09:18

Zaim

27-10-2013, 15:16:27

SieB
Very interesting, lets hope they do come in Nov.

Nice to OverpricersUK living up to rep as well, charging 100 more more for a 50 cooler

27-10-2013, 18:29:00

CapitanoMal
I have a friend who told me his shop was given info about a certain non reference card from MSI for "early November."

So, take that with a grain of salt.

27-10-2013, 18:51:59

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitanoMal View Post
I have a friend who told me his shop was given info about a certain non reference card from MSI for "early November."

So, take that with a grain of salt.
since AMD won't allow any till end of november i call bullshit.

28-10-2013, 08:38:37

SeekaX
780s now 400 pounds at overclockers.co.uk
what will the 290x be? 350 pounds? i'd like to see that

28-10-2013, 08:42:20

barnsley
Chances are the 290 will be ~350 as I'd think that as it is only a slightly toned down 290x it'll be going for the 780 while the 290x (with aftermarket cooling) would go for the 780ti. I'm sure AMD could see the 780ti from a mile off, considering everyone else could...

28-10-2013, 08:47:02

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by barnsley View Post
Chances are the 290 will be ~350 as I'd think that as it is only a slightly toned down 290x it'll be going for the 780 while the 290x (with aftermarket cooling) would go for the 780ti. I'm sure AMD could see the 780ti from a mile off, considering everyone else could...

Nvidia staff didnt even know the Ti was coming. I was talking to them about it the day after and thats the first they had saw or seen it too!

28-10-2013, 08:48:46

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
780s now 400 pounds at overclockers.co.uk
what will the 290x be? 350 pounds? i'd like to see that
my mouse is hovering over the buy button , decisions decisions

28-10-2013, 08:57:14

barnsley
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Nvidia staff didnt even know the Ti was coming. I was talking to them about it the day after and thats the first they had saw or seen it too!
How weird xD. I mean I thought it was common knowledge that of course Nvidia would release a card in case the 290x was way better than the titan/780 and to take the attention away from AMD and back to them. Especially as it was only recently that AMD released their 'new' line of cards?

28-10-2013, 09:07:54

Stryker64
I know you're planning on watercooling this GPU to see if temperatures are a limiting factor. Assuming that it yields improvements in overclock or w/e is there any chance you could do a review with a Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme Plus II Cooler bolted on it to simulate what possible custom cooler performance would be like?

28-10-2013, 10:18:59

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stryker64 View Post
I know you're planning on watercooling this GPU to see if temperatures are a limiting factor. Assuming that it yields improvements in overclock or w/e is there any chance you could do a review with a Arctic Cooling Accelero Xtreme Plus II Cooler bolted on it to simulate what possible custom cooler performance would be like?
No because you have to glue all the mosfet and memory heatsinks on. They are bonded on for life mate and Im not doing that to this card and making it useless for future reviews

28-10-2013, 10:26:19

ObscureParadox
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Nvidia staff didnt even know the Ti was coming. I was talking to them about it the day after and thats the first they had saw or seen it too!
I've had a similar thing with a source of mine. I'm calling a spin doctor on the whole thing. Just there to get people talking about Nvidia again I think and to stop them from going out and getting a 290X.

I have to admit when I first saw TTLs review I sorta though, why would you recommend the 780 over the 290X? After watching the explanation video and seeing the prices of 780s available at the time (which I originally thought was more in the 500 region) I sorta started to see his point of view. I will still reserve judgement until I see custom cards though as I do think that will help the card out a lot.

28-10-2013, 13:53:38

Zaim
Not sure if this has been posted before, if not here it is:

-snip-
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showthread.php?p=688001

28-10-2013, 14:59:39

Noble07
Tom! I've been building with AMD gpus since I started building PCs, but I think I may switch over to nVidia. Thanks for giving a very insightful and truthful review!

But before I switch over, I really want to see how much overclocking is possible in a watercooled system, otherwise I may just buy a waterblock for the 780 and use that card. Any ideas on when you'll get a waterblock and run some tests? A month or so?

28-10-2013, 19:57:54

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble07 View Post
Tom! I've been building with AMD gpus since I started building PCs, but I think I may switch over to nVidia. Thanks for giving a very insightful and truthful review!

But before I switch over, I really want to see how much overclocking is possible in a watercooled system, otherwise I may just buy a waterblock for the 780 and use that card. Any ideas on when you'll get a waterblock and run some tests? A month or so?
The 290x is still faster if you are looking at performance. The 780 just got a price drop which makes it cheaper than the 290x so that would sway my decision.

Tom wanting(as he said in the video) to do a watercooled 290x vs a watercooled 780 may not happen.. he wants to doesn't mean will be able to. We'll see though.

29-10-2013, 03:34:19

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
The 290x is still faster if you are looking at performance. The 780 just got a price drop which makes it cheaper than the 290x so that would sway my decision.

Tom wanting(as he said in the video) to do a watercooled 290x vs a watercooled 780 may not happen.. he wants to doesn't mean will be able to. We'll see though.
With the 290X it is very easy to stick 1.4v through it out of the box, add waterblock and it will take some beating.

You can also put 1.4v through a GTX 780 if you have the right one but it is a lot more of a pain, thank you NVidia.

What I am really saying is there is a lot of variables if Tom were to do a review.

29-10-2013, 05:42:07

ObscureParadox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
With the 290X it is very easy to stick 1.4v through it out of the box, add waterblock and it will take some beating.

You can also put 1.4v through a GTX 780 if you have the right one but it is a lot more of a pain, thank you NVidia.

What I am really saying is there is a lot of variables if Tom were to do a review.
1.4v :O No chance in hell could you do that to them cards, they wouldn't last very long anyway.

29-10-2013, 05:58:45

Tripp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureParadox View Post
1.4v :O No chance in hell could you do that to them cards, they wouldn't last very long anyway.
he has his cards watercooled

29-10-2013, 07:10:33

ObscureParadox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripp View Post
he has his cards watercooled
All the same, I have seen those things go pop with 1.3V going through them. I'd hate to imagine how long it would last with 1.4V watercooled or not.

29-10-2013, 11:47:57

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObscureParadox View Post
1.4v :O No chance in hell could you do that to them cards, they wouldn't last very long anyway.
I was pointing out how easy it is with the 290X

For normal use in gaming I don't believe in overclocking, overvolting, or anything else, I just run the cards at stock.

I also don't run any of my intel hexcore CPUs at more than 4.0 24/7, I prefer to max game settings which reduces the need to overclock.

02-11-2013, 23:35:46

ozegamer
Sums up reference cooler quite nicely!

03-11-2013, 11:04:28

iiBetrayforAR
"Permission for take off?"

"Granted"

"Permission to engage afterburners"

"Granted"

POWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!! !!!http://www.themotorreport.com.au/con...7ac217bffd.jpg

Awww crap, I just noticed I'm out of popcorn, welp time to get some more.

05-11-2013, 07:10:30

SieB
So the 290 is out and it's only 330 and performs just under the 290x.
Suddenly those 400 780s don't seem as good for the money, they are still a bargain at 400 but the 290 at 330

05-11-2013, 09:58:46

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
So the 290 is out and it's only 330 and performs just under the 290x.
Suddenly those 400 780s don't seem as good for the money, they are still a bargain at 400 but the 290 at 330
It's a hell of a deal for the money no doubt. nVidia are going to have to cut the GTX 780's prices even more to remain competitive, although it's unlikely they'll do that I'd say given the GPUs size.

Sadly though, it's the same deal again; it's crying out for a good custom cooler. One wonders why they didn't use a version of the cooler that's on the 7990.

05-11-2013, 10:05:36

Watsyerproblem
if these cards had good custom coolers they would fly off the shelves.
though with the price of the 290 they might just do so anyway.

i really want to see results from these cards water cooled, pcper mention both cards downclocking a lot to maintain their 95 degree temperature limit. with the temperature factor eliminated it would stop downclocking and the performance decrease it causes and really open them to overclocking too.

05-11-2013, 10:31:17

Zaim
Quote:
Originally Posted by SieB View Post
So the 290 is out and it's only 330 and performs just under the 290x.
Suddenly those 400 780s don't seem as good for the money, they are still a bargain at 400 but the 290 at 330
Found one for 310 mate, the performance is good but the problem is the cooler, I personally wouldn't buy a stock cooled one, heat/noise is a big issue for me. Need Asus, MSI, Gigabyte to release cards with their coolers on them.

05-11-2013, 10:42:28

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
It's a hell of a deal for the money no doubt. nVidia are going to have to cut the GTX 780's prices even more to remain competitive, although it's unlikely they'll do that I'd say given the GPUs size.

Sadly though, it's the same deal again; it's crying out for a good custom cooler. One wonders why they didn't use a version of the cooler that's on the 7990.
really, they did the stock cooler thing again? i don't get it, it doesn't benefit them at all, it's a marketing disaster.

05-11-2013, 11:00:33

samwisekoi
Tom, Tom! We are crying out for a water-cooled 290 review! Can you do this for your grateful fan-boys/followers?

05-11-2013, 11:04:52

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by samwisekoi View Post
Tom, Tom! We are crying out for a water-cooled 290 review! Can you do this for your grateful fan-boys/followers?
No plans for it atm tbh. Concentrating on Nvid stuff atm.

05-11-2013, 11:09:20

Zoot
One could always get one of these I guess, even if it is going to add to the price.
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/products/...treme-iii.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
really, they did the stock cooler thing again? i don't get it, it doesn't benefit them at all, it's a marketing disaster.
I don't really feel like engaging with another back and forth with you since your posts aren't too heavy on content, but I'll just say this; the demand for these cards would seem that it's actually the opposite of a "Marketing Disaster" for AMD, despite the excessive noise and heat.

05-11-2013, 11:20:16

SieB
Shame about the cooler, we will only see the full potential of these cards once aftermarket coolers come out.

Tom's hardware did an interesting test with the Arctic Accelero Xtreme III

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/radeon...-32818-19.html

It will be interesting to see how the 290/x does when Asus etc etc are able to mod the PCB and slap decent coolers on.

05-11-2013, 11:33:55

SeekaX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
One could always get one of these I guess, even if it is going to add to the price.
http://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/products/...treme-iii.html


I don't really feel like engaging with another back and forth with you since your posts aren't too heavy on content, but I'll just say this; the demand for these cards would seem that it's actually the opposite of a "Marketing Disaster" for AMD, despite the excessive noise and heat.
my posts aren't too heavy on content says the person who doesn't see the problem with a terrible ref cooler only release which was the main reason for why tom recommended the 780 over the 290x.

05-11-2013, 11:47:20

grassman
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
No plans for it atm tbh. Concentrating on Nvid stuff atm.
Were you not given a 290 review sample

AMD are making things awkward.
Put out a Asus ROG motherboard review out instead rofl.

05-11-2013, 12:00:39

Zoot
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekaX View Post
my posts aren't too heavy on content says the person who doesn't see the problem with a terrible ref cooler only release which was the main reason for why tom recommended the 780 over the 290x.
I don't believe I ever said the cooler was great, in fact I've said the opposite just now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
excessive noise and heat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoot View Post
Sadly though, it's the same deal again; it's crying out for a good custom cooler.
Reading comprehension... great skill to have.

05-11-2013, 13:34:25

barnsley
Time to wait for the aftermarket coolers. Maybe AMD have realized the errors of their ways? all I can say is HURRY UP I WANT TO BUY A NEW CARD OR TWO AND I'D LIKE TO NOT WASTE MONEY DOING IT. I don't care if it is either AMD or Nvidia, as long as it has enough grunt for me I'll be happy.

05-11-2013, 15:02:32

yassarikhan786
Cracking price for the 290, but I'm eagerly awaiting the aftermarket variants before I pounce.

05-11-2013, 20:19:08

NeverBackDown
Wonder if any aftermarket coolers are coming out for the 290x AND 290 at the same time? From my understanding they use the same PCB layout so should be easy?

06-11-2013, 01:38:13

Noble07
Awww...I was hoping TTL would so a 290 review so I know whether or not I should buy it...

06-11-2013, 01:57:10

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noble07 View Post
Awww...I was hoping TTL would so a 290 review so I know whether or not I should buy it...
According to other reviewers it is definitely worth its money. The new price to performance card with an immense amount of power under the hood.

06-11-2013, 03:14:19

Kaapstad
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeverBackDown View Post
According to other reviewers it is definitely worth its money. The new price to performance card with an immense amount of power under the hood.
The way things stand at the moment neither AMD or NVidia have the faster single GPU and this won't change when the 780ti arrives.

The AMD cards do some things well, NVidia cards do other things well. What it comes down to is which one suits the games you play the best.

06-11-2013, 18:25:35

NeverBackDown
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaapstad View Post
The way things stand at the moment neither AMD or NVidia have the faster single GPU and this won't change when the 780ti arrives.

The AMD cards do some things well, NVidia cards do other things well. What it comes down to is which one suits the games you play the best.
I said price to performance not just standalone performance
Reply
x

Register for the OC3D Newsletter

Subscribing to the OC3D newsletter will keep you up-to-date on the latest technology reviews, competitions and goings-on at Overclock3D. We won't share your email address with ANYONE, and we will only email you with updates on site news, reviews, and competitions and you can unsubscribe easily at any time.

Simply enter your name and email address into the box below and be sure to click on the links in the confirmation emails that will arrive in your e-mail shortly after to complete the registration.

If you run into any problems, just drop us a message on the forums.