Swiftech H220 AIO Review

Swiftech H220 AIO Review Introduction

Swiftech H220 AIO Review  


Introduction

The Swiftech H220 has actually caused quite a stir in the enthusiast community. It's the first time one of the big water cooling brands has released an 'all in one' unit. The thing is, this is actually more of a prebuilt kit rather than a sealed all in one because it can be expanded. This has some interesting positives, but we fear a lot of potentially negative points too. Still we are expecting this cooler to be the coolest thing we have ever tested and be the quietest too...... Right? Lets take a look at the specifications and then move swiftly (pun intended) on to the testing.
 

Specifications

Swiftech H220 AIO Review  

Swiftech H220 AIO Review

  

«Prev 1 2 3 Next»

Most Recent Comments

25-02-2013, 05:33:43

tinytomlogan
Swiftech push the boundries of what we are used to with an AIO cooler. Can the Swiftech really compete with the H100i?


http://www.overclock3d.net/gfx/artic...082805967l.jpg


Continue Reading

25-02-2013, 05:39:24

Feronix
Yay, thanks!
Will read it once I'm home

25-02-2013, 06:43:00

FlangeBBK
I have to say I'm quite disappointed with this unit, I expected it to be much better tbh

25-02-2013, 06:46:29

Excalabur50
What an orrible looking unit such a shame really.

25-02-2013, 06:58:09

Vlada011
I look performance on 4.6GHz and for me that is enough.
Same I am disappointed...
Good old H100 if you want cooler for one platform. Because this is throwing money for custom loop. For that money you can buy almost, D5 Koolance PMP-450 and XSPC Dual Bay Res for D5 Vario...If you want GPU and CPU under water this is minimum... For proper water cooling...

http://imageshack.us/a/img580/5053/d...rvoirpumpc.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img29/3892/koolancecpu370si.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img152/4708/x...ipleradiat.jpg

Now situation is clear, Hydro series forever or real loop, no kits, combinations,... carefull choose parts, pay twice like H220 but you have system for every platform.

25-02-2013, 07:00:54

UkGouki
tbh i think the h100i looks better and now we seen the performance of this its a no brainer..

if i had the cash and a case that i didnt have to mod to fit one of these i would choose the h100i over the swiftech on pure looks alone + price/performance i.e bang for buck..

25-02-2013, 07:08:04

kejser11
So much for all the hype! Ill stick with my H100i....

25-02-2013, 07:08:29

alpenwasser
Well that was... somewhat anticlimactic.
Agree about the need for a competitive market. The slow-down of Intel's roadmap since AMD's CPUs have gone down the crapper is really starting to annoy me (seriously, where are my unlocked 8 core CPUs for fuck's sake?). Makes me long for the olden days of Athlons.

I have one very minor suggestion/request for the video review which came to my attention after watching this and the Corsair/NZXT combo vid, and depending on the program used to create the graphs might be feasible or not.
In the graphs section of the vid, the presentation nerd in me would consider it awesome if the coolers/graph bars being currently talked about could be somehow highlighted.
So, for example, out of 10 coolers with 3 bars each, the two coolers currently being compared in the voice-over would be highlighted or coloured differently.
To be clear, this really is just me being extremely picky (where have I heard that before ), and since I'm a great proponent of the principle of factor sparsity, I would completely understand if this isn't implemented due to unreasonably high effort for little reward.

25-02-2013, 07:15:47

Vlada011
I'm still stay with H100.
But I search, read and learn what is good little loop for me for CPU and GPU, I though Swiftech H220, but and than I need money for new 240mm radiator.
That's 100$ cheaper than choosing good parts easy.

25-02-2013, 07:20:09

PaddieMayne
Im also pretty disappointed, i was expecting more from this unit performance wise and yes it does look ugly.

H100i all day long, just wish Corsair/Antec etc etc would bring out an all in one GPU cooler to compete with the Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler as im sure it could be done better.

Also is there any chance of you doing a review on the Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler Tom ?

25-02-2013, 07:26:54

Fetzie
So basically

* If it costs more than 100 quid, get an H100i
* If it costs more than 125 quid, look at the kits you can buy, like the EK 240 one, or the H100i if you want a pre-assembled unit.

Quote:
H100i all day long, just wish Corsair/Antec etc etc would bring out an all in one GPU cooler to compete with the Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler as im sure it could be done better.
Except they'd have to bring out a different one for each GPU, because the PCB is different on pretty much all of them.

Guess I'll save my money for something else :/

25-02-2013, 07:41:58

PaddieMayne
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post

Except they'd have to bring out a different one for each GPU, because the PCB is different on pretty much all of them.

Guess I'll save my money for something else :/
You need to take a look at this unit more carefully..Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/arcti...or-enthusiasts

Look at the GPU compatability list for the one kit...
GT 520
GTX 460
GTX 460 SE
GTX 465
GTX 470
GTX 480
GTX 560
GTX 560 Ti
GTX 570
GTX 580
GTX 660 Ti
GTX 670
GTX 680
HD 4850
HD 4870
HD 4890
HD 5830
HD 5850
HD 5870
HD 6770
HD 6790
HD 6850
HD 6870
HD 6950
HD 6970
HD 7850
HD 7870

If they can do it, then im sure the likes of Corsair/Antec could do it better.

25-02-2013, 07:44:51

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddieMayne View Post
You need to take a look at this unit more carefully..Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/arcti...or-enthusiasts

Look at the GPU compatability list for the one kit...
GT 520
GTX 460
GTX 460 SE
GTX 465
GTX 470
GTX 480
GTX 560
GTX 560 Ti
GTX 570
GTX 580
GTX 660 Ti
GTX 670
GTX 680
HD 4850
HD 4870
HD 4890
HD 5830
HD 5850
HD 5870
HD 6770
HD 6790
HD 6850
HD 6870
HD 6950
HD 6970
HD 7850
HD 7870

If they can do it, then im sure the likes of Corsair/Antec could do it better.
The reason why they have not is that thing is just faffing wrong!

25-02-2013, 07:49:39

PaddieMayne
Come on Tom you can give us a better review than that, and people are buying them as an easier solution to Custom Water just like they do the CPU all in ones, i agree the Arctic solution looks terrible, but with the likes of Corsair/Antec putting R&D into a solution im sure it could be made better/nicer, as the principle is a good one low noise low temps cooling solution which should be easy too fit, not sure Arctic have managed that though.

25-02-2013, 07:53:26

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaddieMayne View Post
Come on Tom you can give us a better review than that, and people are buying them as an easier solution to Custom Water just like they do the CPU all in ones, i agree the Arctic solution looks terrible, but with the likes of Corsair/Antec putting R&D into a solution im sure it could be made better/nicer, as the principle is a good one low noise low temps cooling solution which should be easy too fit, not sure Arctic have managed that though.

No mate Id advise them NOT too, its a terrible idea.

25-02-2013, 08:14:16

Damien c
Nice review!

Disappointed with the performance though, and still cannot understand why no company is doing a AIO CPU cooler with a 60mm thick rad for those cases that can support it, because I am sure a fair few people would buy one considering how much better the 60mm thick rads perform compared to a 35mm thick rad.

I understand that this AIO kit is a starting point to a custom water loop but really, why would you buy this when you can get a kit for not much more money that will out perform it, and makes it easier to add in another rad or block.

25-02-2013, 08:37:38

Greenback
well that was a big shock specialtech have them down for 119.99 atm, in the pics I've seen it didn't look to bad but seeing it in a case it is ugly.
And i'd go with you if you are looking to add a res then your looking at xspc rs240 kit prices and I wouldn't want to run a cpu+gpu off of a 240.
Arctic Accelero Hybrid Graphics Card Cooler I'd just get a Universal EK VGA Supremacy Bridge Edition and put it into a proper loop, time you get that and a h100i your getting into Rx360 kit price. imo

25-02-2013, 09:58:25

Feronix
Must say that I am quite disappointed about the results... Might as well get a proper custom loop then

25-02-2013, 10:11:09

Fetzie
I was wondering, the tubing was lying on the back of the graphics card in the video (despite it being in a lower slot). Could the heat from the graphics card have heated the tubing (and the liquid inside the tubing) and thus influenced the results?

25-02-2013, 10:16:59

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
I was wondering, the tubing was lying on the back of the graphics card in the video (despite it being in a lower slot). Could the heat from the graphics card have heated the tubing (and the liquid inside the tubing) and thus influenced the results?
Nope.

25-02-2013, 10:54:40

yd1
Hello Mr Logan,
iv's bean watching the youtube channel for a long time.
in this review there's some things i'm missing.

You used to do the testing live in front of camera which left little room
for doubts, or any issues of review trust , but no more.
It was important to mention this swiftech fans are slower & quieter
but you didn't mentioned it.
and the video felt like halfed handed unlike older videos.

and yeah i'm surprise/disappointed by this results..
but more then you don't do the testing like you used to, in-front of the camera, for our viewing pleasure.

Since corsair sponsored you, yes there was talk about impartiality
toward competing brands, and to be honest there war couple reviews
when I head doubts myself.

still not sure what to think of this,
I'll wait for more reviews to feel they confirm this one.

PS maybe you one day do a system build of custom water cooler,
with inaudible fans/pump/res'. (up to 900rpm fans)

I'm so tired of fan noise, even from 1200rpm top notch TY-140 fans
Just cant stand the damn noise any more. (must be an age thing)

I enjoy your reviews and will keep watching them
Best of Luck
YD.

25-02-2013, 11:39:25

sinnedone
I was expecting this o beat out the h100i by a couple of degrees???

The videos at CES showed real time by a couple of different reviewers showed the temps were about the same between the h100i to 2-3 degrees cooler on the swiftech using the same components.

While I dont doubt the testing methodology, you think maybe you received a poor unit? As in not the norm?

I have an h100i by the way and other than the noises (which were fixed with different fans) and the slightly buggy software (main reason for going h100i) have been pretty happy with it.

25-02-2013, 11:56:07

Scoob
You know, I wonder if people are looking at this product in slightly the wrong way. Sure, it's a little expensive (we suspect) and it doesn't perform quite as well as the cheaper H100i - which is certainly the benchmark for this type of kit currently.

Picture this...

I want to give water cooling a go, but I'm fearful of the cost of screwing up. I could lose my 400 GPU, 250 CPU, 300 motherboard...the list goes on. When you've not go the experience, these thoughts are only natural.

I check out the H100i - it has great reviews, isn't too pricy in the scheme of things and will certainly do the job of cooling my CPU. I could get that, fit it easily and be done - risk is minimal as nothing should leak unless I get really unlucky. However, if I start with cooling my CPU, what about my (far noisier) GPU? That thing would benefit from watercooling too no doubt. Thing is, I'm fair to scared to jump in with both feet and build my own bespoke WC solution, I've neither the experience nor confidence for that.

Ooo, what's this? The Swiftech H220? Ok, it's basically a sealed-loop CPU cooler, it's not that pretty but performs OK if not quite as well as the H100i. Hmm, it's a little expensive too, but it'll certainly do the job. Plus, I can expand on it, maybe add in cooling for my GPU at some point - once I'm a little more confident.

So, I get my Swiftech H220, I fit it easily enough with only minor knuckle scraping. Now, the device didn't get the best scores out there vs. the likes of the H100i, however it's so much better than my old stock Intel cooler! It's quieter at load and the temps are much lower. I love this kit!.

Here I am having taken my first baby step in water cooling. It wasn't so hard, I'm happy with the results as it's made a big difference compared to what I had before upgrading. My comfort zone for upgrading my PC has just expanded into very basic watercooling.

What next? Well, my PC is running GREAT, I've overclocked my CPU more than I was ever brave enough to do before due to temperatures. Now I've applied a small OC to my GPU too, which works great but the noise is really starting to bug me.

Ah, my loop can be expanded remember! My newly extended comfort zone means I start doing my homework on GPU blocks, fixtures and fittings etc. Based on my new found confidence with my prior experience, and the reading I've done, I pick up a good basic GPU block and a few accessories to let me expand my loop.

I get my bits, customise my existing loop plumbing in my GPU as well. I do some testing...wow, my GPU is soo much cooler than it was on the stock air cooler, plus it's much quieter too. This is lovely. My CPU temps have gone up a bit, but still far lower than I had before & my PC is very quiet with the side on. My comfort zone expands once again & so does my knowledge and confidence. Wow, I've just fitted my own GPU block, run some custom hosing and customised my H220. Pop goes my water cooling cherry!

I run with this build for a while, happy with my much cooler (than stock) and much quieter (than stock) PC. The thing is, my confidence and experience have given me the water cooling bug!

Ok, one GPU just isn't cutting it for me any more in Cryfield Invasion 4, I'm gonna get me another GPU...hmm, my old Swiftech H220 has done me proud, but I don't think it can manage cooling another device...maybe I'll get a 2nd rad? Maybe just get a larger one? I have options here, but I also have more confidence & experience...

Screw it, I'm going 100% custom, I can do this!

Ok, maybe this is a daft little story, but I very much see the Swiftech H220 and kit like it to be the little pebble that starts the land-slide so to speak. We can build up our confidence with a near risk-free starter kit, maybe even expand on that slightly before going for it with full custom water.

It's very easy for those of us with our experiences from those early attempts to know we should have just done C rather than trying A & B first, but it's those very experiences that gave us the confidence to go to C in the first place. THIS is why I think such kit as the H220 has its place, it can get more people water cooling. Yes, they'd be better off going custom from the start, there's no doubt about that, but without the first baby steps maybe they'd never actually get that far.

Personally, my first "water cooling" experience in my own PC was with an Antec Kuhler 620 close-loop system. It was one of the first and worked really well vs. STOCK cooling. I only got it for space reasons really as my prior air cooler didn't fit with my ram. The 620 was dirt cheap - actually cheaper than my old air cooler - so I went for it & it worked well.

However, my first jump into water cooling proper was a gigantic leap really. I went full external loop with over-kill cooling using parallel flow, which was a fairly new thing in the community back then. I had a great time building that and, in a modified form, it's still doing me proud now. I took the leap as I'd gained some experience helping a friend build his own loop, so my comfort zone was expanded because of that. I also benefitted from some excellent advice here and from the mate I'd helped out previously.

So yes, I largely just jumped in myself, but I can see how such expandable kits can really help people get into water cooling proper.

Anyway, the usual ramble from me lol.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 12:55:29

Phelan
The hoses are longer for compatibilty with running the rad on the bottom or from of larger cases like the 800D or 900D. It's also handy if you simply want to add a gpu to the loop because you may not need to buy new tubing.

This pump has over 4 times the power of an Asetek/Cool-it product, so why would you run it at full speed to compare noise? You didn't even bother to hook it up via PWM. If you drop the speed to an equivilant flow rate of an H100i or whatever, the noise will be INAUDIBLE compared to the fans, and MUCH quieter than the competing units. You can also hook up the fans to the PWM splitter and run it off a separate header, so there's no reason not to do the same with fans, and adjust their speed accordingly, to the same speed of the Corsair's when comparing noise and performance.

I've read over 15 reviews for this product, and yours is the ONLY one that is negative.

25-02-2013, 13:18:01

tinytomlogan
Itss a 7770 it doesnt even get warm to the touch at idle.

I dont care what other reviews say, these are my results, I base my review on MY results.

Ive been doing this long enough now that Im used to upsetting people, if this happens with this one so be it....... Unless all reviews are on the same kit by the same person you cant compare them.

25-02-2013, 13:23:26

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Itss a 7770 it doesnt even get warm to the touch at idle.

I dont care what other reviews say, these are my results, I base my review on MY results.

Ive been doing this long enough now that Im used to upsetting people, if this happens with this one so be it....... Unless all reviews are on the same kit by the same person you cant compare them.
Fair enough. But it still doesn't explain why you would compare the noise levels of an H100i pump flowing .25 GPM to the H220 pump flowing 1 GPM.

Also, why is there different speed settings reviewed for the Corsair and other units but not for the H220?

25-02-2013, 13:28:13

tinytomlogan
I explained that in the video if you listen properly..........

25-02-2013, 13:32:48

Scoob
Ah go on Tom, be a sheep, it'll make your life easier!

Incidentally, the back (top when in the case) of my 680 GTX on air didn't get remotely warm to the touch when I was running Prime...it was at idle after all with just the CPU working. If the GPU were to be worked it'd get a little warm for sure, but not at idle. The 7770 is a fair bit cooler that a 680 by all accounts...

Seriously though, all we can ask from any reviewer is that they report what they see. He's not said this is a BAD product - it won Silver after all (potentially subject to the final UK RRP) and that's certainly better than average. It's just that in the H100i there's a better pure closed-loop CPU cooler on the market. Swiftech are trying to do something that offers a little more to the potential customer, which is commendable, but equally they don't appear to have quite nailed it just yet vs. their perceived competition.

I stand by what I said in my earlier post about this product potentially being a spring board for the budding water coolers though. It might have been an attractive product to me, if it'd been available when I was starting.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 13:51:26

NRG!
Agree with this review tbh.

I was sure it would perform similarly to the h100i, there's only so much you can do with pumps and fans for a slim 240 rad.

I've been saying all along the expandability is a big buckletload of gimmick. In all honesty I'd guess less than 5% of people that buy one of these will take it apart. These things are bought for ease-of-use / scared of custom water in the first place. I mean what do you get?: an ugly cpu block, a loud pump and a skinny rad rofl.

25-02-2013, 14:00:20

Phelan
I redacted a lot of my previous posts; I respect that you're a reviewer and put a bit of time in these reviews, and that your results are your results. I still think either you got a bum unit, or bad TIM contact, or something, but I'll chalk that up to irrelevant since those can be questions of all reviews. I do feel that you have some rather strong opinions against the very premise this kit was built upon - expanding an AIO solution, and that's something we disagree on. So I'll just leave it at that. Have a good day.

25-02-2013, 14:01:47

Scoob
Oh yes, to us who've experience of "proper" water cooling the expandability is indeed a bit of a gimmick. Still, if it does encourage people to take a bit of a leap then that's a good thing in my book. Plus, you can only improve on it with bespoke stuff, which gives the ego a bit of a boost when you do make the jump.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 14:08:13

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG! View Post
Agree with this review tbh.

I was sure it would perform similarly to the h100i, there's only so much you can do with pumps and fans for a slim 240 rad.

I've been saying all along the expandability is a big buckletload of gimmick. In all honesty I'd guess less than 5% of people that buy one of these will take it apart. These things are bought for ease-of-use / scared of custom water in the first place. I mean what do you get?: an ugly cpu block, a loud pump and a skinny rad rofl.
From what I've on other forums, I can tell you that much more than that will be expanding upon this kit. From one forum alone, I've seen dozens of people express intent on picking up this kit as soon as it hits the shelves, with half of them planning to expand upon it immediately, myself included. I had an Apogee Drive II previously and loved it, and even with 2 blocks, a dual bay res, and dual 480 rads, it was near silent and never ran above 2K RPMs. The H80 pump I had on my 2550K was not nearly as quiet when it was revved up.

I got rid of the AD2 to get this unit because the H220 is a better bargain for my build, since I planned on getting the same MCR220-QP-RES rad and Helix PWN Fans for my new build, since I'm going SFF, which is where these products really shine.

25-02-2013, 14:10:59

Mark3Max
Hi Tom,
I really expected , like you , that this would out perform the h100i.
I guess I'll stick with my h100i until I get up the money , a better case and the confidence to try a custom watercooling loop.

25-02-2013, 14:13:58

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark3Max View Post
Hi Tom,
I really expected , like you , that this would out perform the h100i.
I guess I'll stick with my h100i until I get up the money , a better case and the confidence to try a custom watercooling loop.
On that note, you could always get a second, third, fourth, fifteenth opionion. Most are very different than Tom's.

25-02-2013, 14:22:02

NRG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
From what I've on other forums, I can tell you that much more than that will be expanding upon this kit. From one forum alone, I've seen dozens of people express intent on picking up this kit as soon as it hits the shelves, with half of them planning to expand upon it immediately, myself included.
That's good news, maybe the increased demand for watercooling products will bring down prices for me rofl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
Oh yes, to us who've experience of "proper" water cooling the expandability is indeed a bit of a gimmick. Still, if it does encourage people to take a bit of a leap then that's a good thing in my book. Plus, you can only improve on it with bespoke stuff, which gives the ego a bit of a boost when you do make the jump.

Scoob.
As above, but on the other hand it also allows people an 'easy' route into watercooling that's comparable although easier than 'kits'. I think if people do start taking these apart without proper research we're in for some lulsy forum posts about how everything has gone wrong or "rawrawr h220 won't cool m cpu and gpu!" etc

25-02-2013, 14:28:05

Mark3Max
True , good point . I will watch and read more reviews before I decide , but I think a custom loop will perform better.

25-02-2013, 14:36:15

BramSLI1
A custom loop will perform better, but you also have to take into account cost versus performance. For those that will require assistance on adding other blocks and or radiators you can always ask for help on the Swiftech website. We have customer support from Monday through Friday from 8 am to 4:30 PM PST. As a part of Swiftech's Customer Support Team I will help you with my own knowledge of water cooling so that you can get the most out of your H220 kit.

25-02-2013, 15:15:09

Lystfiskern
Had such hope for the Swiftech....

25-02-2013, 15:26:36

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lystfiskern View Post
Had such hope for the Swiftech....
Like I said earlier, check out the other reviews.

25-02-2013, 15:42:27

Phelan
Also Tom, what were the methods used for the Thermal paste? The Corsair units come with it pre-applied, but you've had the H100i for a while by my undersatnding, so what thermal paste did you use to replace the original TIM? With as much as 10*C or more differences seen in Thermal paste alone, why is there no mention of TIM at all in this review?

25-02-2013, 15:48:48

SEBAR
In other videos Tom has stated that he does not use the factory TIM when doing his reviews. If I remember correctly he uses NT-H1.

25-02-2013, 15:50:07

Greenback
Well all I can say is I have trusted toms reviews up until now and I still trust that this test was done fairly
though tbh it would be interesting to see how the h220 does with the faster h100i fans, the point of a review is this is what you get for your xxx out od the box
Phelan you mention other reviews at the end of the day you can look at 10 reviews and get 10 different results you just pick the reviewer you trust and go with that imo

25-02-2013, 15:52:03

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
Well all I can say is I have trusted toms reviews up until now and I still trust that this test was done fairly
though tbh it would be interesting to see how the h220 does with the faster h100i fans, the point of a review is this is what you get for your xxx out od the box
Phelan you mention other reviews at the end of the day you can look at 10 reviews and get 10 different results you just pick the reviewer you trust and go with that imo
True, but when the concensus of the 9 other reviews is opposite of the 1, I tend to think the 1 a bad apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEBAR View Post
In other videos Tom has stated that he does not use the factory TIM when doing his reviews. If I remember correctly he uses NT-H1.
Gotchya

25-02-2013, 15:58:28

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
True, but when the concensus of the 9 other reviews is opposite of the 1, I tend to think the 1 a bad apple.
I'm sure if swiftech feel that toms results are way off and he may have a faulty part they would be happy sending him another

25-02-2013, 16:04:16

UkGouki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
I'm sure if swiftech feel that toms results are way off and he may have a faulty part they would be happy sending him another

true and we have a swiftech rep on the forums but i trust in toms review he is as shocked as we are by the results.

i still stand by my opinion that the h100i looks better but personally i cant afford either right now.

as it means i have to invest in a new drill and dremel to mod my case to fit it aswell so may aswell go full custom loop in the 1st place...

25-02-2013, 16:09:16

tinytomlogan
People always question my results when they dont get what they expected or they dont like it.

Ill always stand by my testing though, its far more open and thorough than all the other sites.

25-02-2013, 16:20:57

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Ill always stand by my testing though, its far more open and thorough than all the other sites.
WOW. Just wow.

25-02-2013, 16:32:06

Lystfiskern
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Like I said earlier, check out the other reviews.
Links maybe please?

25-02-2013, 16:34:10

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lystfiskern View Post
Links maybe please?
You'll have to google it. I had some posted earlier but a mod deleted them.

25-02-2013, 16:39:55

dipzy
I don't like it at all, all that hose

25-02-2013, 16:42:36

Scoob
Quote:
Originally Posted by dipzy View Post
I don't like it at all, all that hose
I did wonder if all the extra hose was there as they expected users to trim them to make a tidier build? Not sure how easy these units are to open up and work on mind.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 16:43:57

Lystfiskern
Ok.

25-02-2013, 16:45:37

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
I did wonder if all the extra hose was there as they expected users to trim them to make a tidier build? Not sure how easy these units are to open up and work on mind.

Scoob.
Pretty simple, just open the fill port and hold the unit upside down .

25-02-2013, 16:50:22

Vlada011
People realy no place for talking about paste and such things...
Situation is clear, Noctua NT-H1 is excellent. I try 3 different on H100.
Arctic Ceramique, NT-H1 and paste came with cooler. No difference...
This is so under expectation I can't explain that. I only don't know how is Kraken so better than CORSAIR... CPU under water Hydro Series for Life, CPU/GPU under water = 300$, END. Every other try can end with paying more money than choosing on beginning real thing.

25-02-2013, 16:56:41

BramSLI1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Pretty simple, just open the fill port and hold the unit upside down .
The hoses just come off with a simple Philip's head screw driver to remove the screws on the clamps. Then you just cut the tubing to length and re-fill the unit from the same fill-port that Phelan says can also be used to drain it. Time involved < 10 minutes.

25-02-2013, 17:12:01

Scoob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Pretty simple, just open the fill port and hold the unit upside down .
Nice, exactly how it should be.

I guess you still have to be pretty careful though as the coolant going to be a fairly nasty mix of chemicals. My own EK coolant STINKS, when I had a slight leak (manufacturing fault on my first rad) it was only seeping out at like a drip every couple of hours but it stank the room out and made me light-headed.

Not faulting the product, good coolant is stinky it seems lol, however it's worth noting.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 17:38:58

NRG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BramSLI1 View Post
The hoses just come off with a simple Philip's head screw driver to remove the screws on the clamps. Then you just cut the tubing to length and re-fill the unit from the same fill-port that Phelan says can also be used to drain it. Time involved < 10 minutes.
is that re-using the same coolant? I would've thought it necessary to flush the unit with distillled water and then add fresh coolant. What are the swiftech-approved coolants anyway?

25-02-2013, 17:42:48

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG! View Post
is that re-using the same coolant? I would've thought it necessary to flush the unit with distillled water and then add fresh coolant. What are the swiftech-approved coolants anyway?
The coolant is water-based with additives. If you just want to shorten the tubes, using the same coolant shouldn't be an issue.

25-02-2013, 17:51:15

BramSLI1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
The coolant is water-based with additives. If you just want to shorten the tubes, using the same coolant shouldn't be an issue.
I can confirm that using the same coolant shouldn't be an issue. Also, I would think that if you had the hoses coming from the front of the case it would make for a much cleaner look. Tom's way of installing it was his own preference, but that doesn't mean that it has to be installed that way with the tubing toward the back of the case.

25-02-2013, 17:55:46

NRG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
The coolant is water-based with additives. If you just want to shorten the tubes, using the same coolant shouldn't be an issue.
I'm asking theoretically as there doesn't seem to be a list of approved coolants on the swiftech site.

With this product making watercooling more accessible there could be any old monkey buying these and refilling with tap water or something lol.

I like the case compatibility pics though, props to swiftech for those. WAIT! except the rv02 one. removing the ap181s and dust filters criminal. Pretty sure the bracket that comes with it allows for mountjng 240mm rads on top of them anyway!

25-02-2013, 18:00:58

USAdystopia
Hmmm. First unenthusiastic review I've seen on the 220...

Seems that the power of the pump (as well as fans) will be the major determining factors if one elected to add an additional radiator and fans to the loop to cool one or more gpus. In many cases installing better fans would boost the performance of these coolers. My H100 has the more efficient Cougar fans in push/pull and I may just risk the modest cost of the 220 and an additional rad to do my own testing.

25-02-2013, 18:01:47

BramSLI1
Quote:
Originally Posted by NRG! View Post
I'm asking theoretically as there doesn't seem to be a list of approved coolants on the swiftech site.

With this product making watercooling more accessible there could be any old monkey buying these and refilling with tap water or something lol.

I like the case compatibility pics though, props to swiftech for those. WAIT! except the rv02 one. removing the ap181s and dust filters criminal. Pretty sure the bracket that comes with it allows for mountjng 240mm rads on top of them anyway!
The coolant will be available separately in about a couple of weeks after the H220 ships. This includes Europe as well.

25-02-2013, 18:07:05

Scoob
Quote:
Originally Posted by BramSLI1 View Post
The coolant will be available separately in about a couple of weeks after the H220 ships. This includes Europe as well.
Though I'm sure you recommend your own stuff, I assume pretty much any good pre-mix should do the job? Best not to mix though, just in case there's some reaction, I guess.

Scoob.

25-02-2013, 18:52:47

Crion
Wow... I'm rather disappointed with this one especially given what we were shown at CES. I was going to recommend this cooler to a friend who is getting ready to build a rig. Guess I'm going to tell him to go H100i since he has no interest in maintaining a custom loop.

25-02-2013, 18:57:53

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crion View Post
Wow... I'm rather disappointed with this one especially given what we were shown at CES. I was going to recommend this cooler to a friend who is getting ready to build a rig. Guess I'm going to tell him to go H100i since he has no interest in maintaining a custom loop.
Like I said, there's at least 15 different reviews that came to a different conclusion.

25-02-2013, 19:11:29

Greenback
just looking at other reviews/comparison and some of them are imo are not even valid, 1 linked from the swiftech site with the biggest difference between the h220 and h100i are done on totally different systems and cases they have the same type of cpu but as we know cpu's can vary in temp even if they are the same type. At least tom does his on the same system

25-02-2013, 19:15:15

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
just looking at other reviews/comparison and some of them are imo are not even valid, 1 linked from the swiftech site with the biggest difference between the h220 and h100i are done on totally different systems and cases they have the same type of cpu but as we know cpu's can vary in temp even if they are the same type. At least tom does his on the same system
Well the 6 I linked earlier weren't like that, but we wouldn't know that since we can't post links.

25-02-2013, 19:25:20

Crion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Well the 6 I linked earlier weren't like that, but we wouldn't know that since we can't post links.
Most of the reviews I've seen don't compare the H220 vs the H100i. They compare against the H100 and the biggest difference between the two is the H100i has proper radiator fans which makes a huge difference.

25-02-2013, 19:36:39

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crion View Post
Most of the reviews I've seen don't compare the H220 vs the H100i. They compare against the H100 and the biggest difference between the two is the H100i has proper radiator fans which makes a huge difference.
I've seen a few still comparing to the H100i, with the H220 besting it in noise and performance when comparing the fans at the same RPMs. With both at full speed, the H100i will outperform the H220 because the fans are way higher RPM. The Helix fans are only 1800 RPM, tuned for low noise.

The H220's pump is a much stronger pump, but turning it's speed down to 1000-1200 rpm won't affect it's performance as an AIO cooler much, if any (maybe 1*), but it will make it substantially quieter.

The H220 wasn't tuned for all-out performance, but to be very quiet while performing extremely well.

25-02-2013, 20:07:54

Greenback
well just did a search with google and and just checking the ones on the first page gave: h80i out performing the h100i (something wrong there)
1 person testing the h220 another testing the h100i on "roughly the same system" and 2 not even comparing to the h100i

25-02-2013, 22:21:51

Offputting
I'd be interested in seeing a comparison of the H220 with H100i fans vs the H100i with H220 fans, to see how big a difference the massive RPM of the corsair fans makes.

25-02-2013, 22:22:56

USAdystopia
Wait a second...this isn't one of those 40 fan push/pull scenarios...is it?!

26-02-2013, 00:03:06

airdeano
well as i expected, for this product..

i am currently running swiftech helix 120 fans (push, pull and push/pull) on my
H100 and @ 12volts (via molex) they battle the H100 OE fans and SP120 fans in
performance pretty well. about 4-6 warmer under loaded conditons in all scenarios.
they are very quiet fans and do very well. also have used their helix 120pwm fans
as well with 1 warmer over the standard helix 120 fans.

kinda goes back to the designing of the system. a high density fin radiator needs
more fan speed/air flow to lower the temperatures. martin and skinee have shown
this extensively in testing on radiators. taking the same setup and putting SP120
fans should yield cooler results. but the trade-off is noise...

buying a pre-built system for beginners this can be an experience to have, if the
pricing stays $130ish.. any more and it begins to be uncompetitive.

i was hoping this to be a 10 better than AIO shelf kits currently. and i really dont
see where 10 could be gained to be a leader in the AIO market.

the idea is very smart and innovative, expensive R&D, and launch proud, but not a
15% higher price point performer.

26-02-2013, 07:41:55

Damien c
Wow I simply cannot believe how much has been posted on this thread that is by the looks of it to me is, trying to say that Tom is biased in the review.


There are a few places that I look at when looking for reviews about hardware etc, and only 1 of them will test a cooler like this with the same fans on each different cooler (Noctua), using the same hardware etc but I don't like the fact that the person in questions video's are so short and don't go in to great detail.

With TTL's videos I have seen enough, of them to know that the thermal paste used on EVERY cooler is the same since iirc, he did all the test's again for the coolers, because the hardware changed and he moved everything in to a case instead of a test bench, and also the hardware etc is the same, and that the test's are done using the fans provided with the cooler, and that the cpu is tested at 3 speeds if the cooler can cope with it.

Every other review site may show different result's than what TTL got, but to be honest not every site will have the same results everytime but if you are looking at buying something then you should, be looking at mulitple reviews and not just going of a single or 2 reviews.


Given the fact that TTL is in the same country as me, and 90% of the times the weather is the same I know that the temp's that TTL get's are basically what I will get with something, give or take a few degrees for the ambient air temp.

This cooler is a no go for me regardless of temps though simply because I prefer to use a custom loop, but if I was going to use a cooler like this for someones pc then I would use this over a Corsair simply because in the future it could be expanded on without, having to pay for a Pump, Res and CPU block and rad, although I would add another Rad in the loop.

Whilst TTL is sponsored by Corsair I 100% believe that he is not biased towards Corsair hardware, and I fully 100% believe that he will not say something is bad or fudge the results to make people, believe that a Corsair product is better just because it's Corsair.

As for the Tubing being on the GPU, if the GPU was being put under load then potentially it could affect the temperature of the fluid in the tubes, but it wasn't under load so it's not going to affect the temps provided.

I mean seriously what do people want TTL to do when testing a Cooler?

The only way I could see the results really being changed or affected which, would then cause issues for people who buy something based on TTL's results, would be for it to be done in a room where it's always at the same Ambient Temp, the same fans are used all the time with the fans provided not being used, and only 1 cpu speed being used.

The issues that would cause though is that, not everyone will have the abillity to run a room at a consistent temp, and not everyone is going to run the same fans that TTL would have to use and they would, use what ever fans come with the cooler or what ever fans they buy that they like, and also not every person is going to be running the same cpu at the same speed.


Not to mention though and this is what suprises me that some people have not mentioned, is that you could have 2 pc's in the same room which is always kept at say 24c via air con, the cpu's are both ran at stock using the exact same voltage, using the same type of cooler let's say the Noctua D14, you could find that 1 cpu runs at say 60c per core and the other could run at 50c per core or 70c per core, because not every cpu heat spreader is the same and neither is the base on the cooler, so what would people say then would they say that the cooler wasn't fitted correctly or that to much paste was used etc, even if it was using the paste applied at the factory on the cooler, and that the cooler had let's say the same mounting style as the AMD cpu's which means you are not really, going to be able to fit the cooler incorrectly.

Personally I think if people want to question a review that's fine, but I hate it when the reviewers integrity is questioned because of something, considering looking at previous reviews there was never a question of it.

I also like the fact that TTL's results are real world results because most people that I know are not, running air con so the graphics card heat add's to the ambient air temp, and also if there are other things running in the room that add to the air temp such as a plasma tv.

With my setup, when I used my 42" tv as a monitor and I was gaming my temp's on everything was around 5c to 10c higher, than they are now that I am using a 27" monitor because the heat from the monitor is far, far less than that, that was produced from the tv.

Sorry for the rant, but I just get annoyed with stuff like this when someones integrity is called in to question because there review is different to others, especially when everything is different.

26-02-2013, 07:43:23

tinytomlogan
Official pricing has come in at 106.99 so as prmised in the video Ive changed the award to a gold.

26-02-2013, 07:53:23

Greenback
that's a nice price considering it is an expandable system

26-02-2013, 08:08:23

BradKing
That's a good price and indeed that would warrant a better award.

I know you tested all the coolers on the same system hardware, I was just wondering if they were all tested in the same case + gpu, or if some of these are from the bench rig?

26-02-2013, 08:32:57

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradKing View Post
That's a good price and indeed that would warrant a better award.

I know you tested all the coolers on the same system hardware, I was just wondering if they were all tested in the same case + gpu, or if some of these are from the bench rig?
Tom retested all of these in the new test rig/case after his old test rig died.
so they all have the same everything

26-02-2013, 09:19:07

Scoob
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Official pricing has come in at 106.99 so as prmised in the video Ive changed the award to a gold.
Not a bad price at all. At that level I can see it only encouraging more people into watercooling. It would be interesting to see what people end up doing with it, and how they expand on it. Additionally, I wonder at what point in a build people choose to move on and go totally custom.

Scoob.

26-02-2013, 09:36:03

Greenback
When I first was looking at just doing my cpu I would be tempted for 1 of these, it's not that hard a deal to add another rad and gpu block. I think that's what will tempt ppl

26-02-2013, 09:45:16

Scoob
From what I've read it seems that the pump is over-engineered for the single rad and block the kit comes with. I do wonder how it copes as more blocks are added, and what the guide-line are regardling practical limits one should not push beyond.

Let's hope we see some builds using this in the Projects area - please post a link here if you have one!

Scoob.

26-02-2013, 11:46:51

Phelan
I no longer have much beef with this review directly. The lower temps on the H100i can be expected when its fans are running at 50% higher RPM (2700 compared to 1800, something I missed earlier). If the fans on the H100i and others were turned to 1800 RPMs, I believe you'd see the H220 pull ahead in that scenario. Like I said before, this unit was tuned for low noise, not for all out performance. If you put those SP120s on the H220 I can guarantee the temps would be much better, especially considering it's the only CLC on the market with a copper radiator instead of aluminum.

The only other thing I didn't like was that the pump wasn't turned down with PWM. Even at 1800 rpms it would still perform within 1* of it's top speed but it would be half as loud. I mean seriously. It turns up to 3000 RPMs. Of course it'll be loud there. Other aio pumps turns at 1200. In Swiftech's pump speed testing on their site, they even mention about temps being almost indifferent up to a certain point of flow.

26-02-2013, 11:52:20

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
From what I've read it seems that the pump is over-engineered for the single rad and block the kit comes with. I do wonder how it copes as more blocks are added, and what the guide-line are regardling practical limits one should not push beyond.

Let's hope we see some builds using this in the Projects area - please post a link here if you have one!

Scoob.
At CES they used this unit pumping through 3 blocks and 3 radiators on their 5th system. Basically anywhere you can use a DDC under 3K RPM, you can used this system. They will eventually have this pump for sale separately as a Laing replacement, since it was designed to run 4500RPMs, but they tuned it down to 3000 for this unit.
I will be using the H220 in my new build, the Mini-Phantom I dubbed Mini-Me, along with a second MCR220-QP and a 7970 Komodo block and 6 additional Helix fans for p/p.
It should also be noted that Swiftech's new pump used here was independantly rated at 60,000 MTBF, 10,000 more than the Laing DDCs.

26-02-2013, 12:42:22

sinnedone
At CES the h220 was the same or only 2-3 degrees cooler than the h100i. (depending on what ces video you looked at, the ones in the rooms with identical systems)

Fan speed on the H100i is litterally only 2-3 degrees difference between say 650 rpm to 2700.


Honestly though, Why are you going to compare different fans etc? If you compare systems vs systems they need to be compared as they came for true real world performance difference.

I know some people will change/upgrade fans if not right away then shortly after , but that doesnt compare what the manufactureres of these units put out to the consumer.


That being said Id like to see a revisit with a second rad and at least one gpu block to see if its really worth it as an "upgradable" unit.

26-02-2013, 12:59:24

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by sinnedone View Post
...
Fan speed on the H100i is litterally only 2-3 degrees difference between say 650 rpm to 2700.
...
Tom's test shows up to a 10*C difference between H100i fan speed "balanced" and MAX when it was undervolted, but it's still significant.

26-02-2013, 13:02:05

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Um, no. Tom's test shows a 10*C difference betweem H100i fan speed "balanced" and MAX.

Think you may want to go and check again. NO WHERE is there a 10c difference.

26-02-2013, 13:04:29

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Think you may want to go and check again. NO WHERE is there a 10c difference.
I looked again and edited my post accordingly. There was a 10* difference when the CPU was undervolted.

26-02-2013, 13:10:01

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
I looked again and edited my post accordingly. There was a 10* difference when the CPU was undervolted.
Thats all down to fan speeds. On the corsairs they hardly span up. Remember the swiftech was fixed speed the corsairs are variable.

26-02-2013, 14:17:59

sinnedone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Tom's test shows up to a 10*C difference between H100i fan speed "balanced" and MAX when it was undervolted, but it's still significant.

My "tests" showed about a 3 degree average between lowest fan speed and max. 5 degrees if it was a cool night. Say sub 25c. That doesnt happen much here in the sunshine state though.

26-02-2013, 14:34:43

NRG!
Even though I don't like the unit overall I think the price makes it gold-worthy tbh.

26-02-2013, 15:21:24

Greenback
well if I was a company wanting to show how good my new AIO was compared to another's and I was going to put them in "identical" systems the week b4 I would find the hottest and coolest cpu and those would be my test rigs guess what goes where maybe that's just the way my mind works.

But that said as I wrote b4 I would of been tempted by this if it had been out when I first went to water knowing swiftech make good pumps and cpu blocks.

26-02-2013, 15:44:48

Resident
Can I ask a sensible question?

What about the warranty? If someone expanded the system during the warranty period and then something from the original spec failed because the system has been modified then Swiftech *COULD* (not saying they would) claim that you broke it by modifying the unit from it's factory specs.

26-02-2013, 16:02:26

grouchon
Dear Forum members, in response to Mr Tom Logan’s review of this product, I have the following comments which I would like to share with you here.

I. On the subject of poor performance of the H220 relative to Corsair H100i on the 2011 platform at approximately equal fan speed.

Our observations are as follows:

Possible factor #1 – operating fan speed : Swiftech was tested at fixed 12v (1800 rpm) and Corsair H100i was tested in Balanced mode.

According to Corsair, I cite:

“The "Low Noise", "Balanced", and "High Performance" settings are not strict fan RPMs, but performance curves that let the fans spin up based on internal coolant temp. Their settings are as follows:

Low Noise - 900 RPM to 1300 RPM
Balanced - 1300 RPM to 2000 RPM
High Perf - 1600 RPM to 2600 RPM”

Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.

Possible factor #2 –Thermal compound - Assuming that all units were tested with the same thermal compound

In our own lab testing, and at high temperature loads, we have measured more than 2C difference between our TIM-Mate 2 and Corsair’s pre-applied compound. So by testing the units with a better compound than the original pre-applied stuff, this could artificially boost performance of the Corsair by up to 2C, which is not representative of the product performance “as shipped”.

For further clarifications, Swiftech’s position on the subject matter of doing comparative testing/reviews of AIO units is that they should be tested in two stages, and the relevant data reported to readers as follows:
1. “as received”, based on the rationale that the vast majority of these products is sold to first time users who do not generally replace the thermal compound, particularly when it is pre-applied, and
2. with the same thermal compound so as to establish the thermal characteristics of the product using the same baseline, which provides additional information to the more advanced users.

For the record, all comparative test data published by Swiftech is based on item 1 in accordance with the above stated belief.

Conclusions:

Both of the above factors combined yield up to 4C or more in favor of the Corsair. When readjusted downwards as such, the data would be consistent with our own testing at +/- 1C. In effect, we observed in our lab that the Corsair H100i unit performed substantially better than the earlier H100 version on the Socket LGA 2011 platform compared to 1155 and 1366, and came close (by 1.7C) to the performance of our H220 at equal fan speed on this particular platform.

II. On the subject of Expandability and other matters

• We noticed a factual error in Mr Logan’s presentation, and would like to correct it; he says erroneously and I cite: “it is technically a DDC”. As explained at length in our video presentations the pump is entirely Swiftech developed and Swiftech manufactured. It is not “Technically” a Laing Made DDC.
• We cannot respond in details to Mr Logan’s comments on the subject of our kit’s expandability, such as adding a VGA in particular, because the opinions expressed by Mr Logan are not backed by factual data. We can only state that we DEMONSTRATED the product to be fully expandable to a full panel of media specialists during CES.

III. On the subject of tubing length

We could not but notice Mr Logans’ extreme frustration regarding the above subject matter. What we can respond with is this:
o as far as the primary target user is concerned (first time user), we intentionally supply longer tubing than other AIO kits with the H220 because we genuinely believe that it will provide more choices to users in terms of installation of the product in their case, such as frontal installation, or installation at the bottom of the case.
o As far as the DIY enthusiast user is concerned, our decision was based on the rationale that the H220 tubing can be replaced at will by such users.
We want to thank overclock3D.net for granting a Gold Award to the H220 CPU cooler, and hope that the above commentaries will further assist users in deciding which kit is right for them.

Gabriel Rouchon
CEO

26-02-2013, 16:15:11

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post

Therefore, because of the high heat load generated by this particular processor (150W +++) it is possible/likely that the Corsair fans operated at their maximum of 2000 RPM in such balanced mode (versus the H220 1800 RPM), which certainly could account for a 2C loss for the Swiftech unit against the Corsair.


Gabriel Rouchon
CEO
TBH I'm not an expert but I would like to challenge this assumption that 200rpm can make a 2 degree difference in temps.

I have a H100i and I run the fans at 1000rpm. If I increase them to 1200rpm I don't see a 2 degree drop in temperature nor if I drop the rpm to 800 do I see a 2 degree increase in temperature. 0.75 of a degree at most either way yes but nowhere near 2c

26-02-2013, 16:23:39

tinytomlogan
I welcome the post from Grouchon, despite the trolls essentially he has just validated my results.

26-02-2013, 16:41:03

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
Can I ask a sensible question?

What about the warranty? If someone expanded the system during the warranty period and then something from the original spec failed because the system has been modified then Swiftech *COULD* (not saying they would) claim that you broke it by modifying the unit from it's factory specs.
The warrantee is 3 yrs regardless if the system is kept closed or expanded upon.

26-02-2013, 16:43:17

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
I welcome the post from Grouchon, despite the trolls essentially he has just validated my results.
I apologize for my brash tone earlier and inadvertent trolling. Gabe's response is superb and a much better representation of my sentiment.

26-02-2013, 16:50:10

BramSLI1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
Can I ask a sensible question?

What about the warranty? If someone expanded the system during the warranty period and then something from the original spec failed because the system has been modified then Swiftech *COULD* (not saying they would) claim that you broke it by modifying the unit from it's factory specs.
Phelan is correct. As a Swiftech Customer Support Rep I can confirm that we will honor the warranty of original parts of this kit even if you modify it to include other blocks, radiators, pumps, and or reservoirs.

26-02-2013, 16:59:09

Greenback
don't know if I'm missing something here but if:
200 rpm = 2c
then when tom puts the h100I to max thus 2800
800 rpm = 8c
so H100i max should be 8c cooler then at balanced unless they have changed how math works since I left school

26-02-2013, 17:00:45

tinytomlogan
http://www.overclock3d.net/reviews/c...0_aio_review/2


Screen shots showing temp results added to main review.

26-02-2013, 17:09:51

Scoob
Quote:
Originally Posted by BramSLI1 View Post
Phelan is correct. As a Swiftech Customer Support Rep I can confirm that we will honor the warranty of original parts of this kit even if you modify it to include other blocks, radiators, pumps, and or reservoirs.
This is good. Swiftech are standing behind their product as a choice for modders and backing that up with a fair* warranty, based on the assumption that people will want to pull these things apart and create something a little more custom. I like that.

* I mean fair as in right and proper, rather than fair taken to me "just about ok, I suppose".

Oh, interesting point earlier re: Toms use of a different TIM and how it could potentially have boosted the results of the H100i - a fair point. I do wonder though, does anyone ever use the supplied TIM with an item when they've already bought (one assumes) what they consider the best? I know I don't. And this is true over several air and water CPU coolers as well as all the GPU blocks I've had. I want to use the best stuff I have on ALL my kit where there's an option, so I 100% see why Tom would do this.

It's quite subjective whether this is fair or not, on one hand testing the kit as supplied is a good way to test, yet what if that not what users are doing. In this case Advantage Corsair for maybe not using the best TIM to start with. However this does give points to Swiftech for using decent stuff in the first place, someone new to watercooling and modding in general might not have a favourite TIM yet.

Anyway, I'd say BOTH methods are valid for testing, as long as they are fully explained - which I think Tom did.

Scoob.

26-02-2013, 17:42:10

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
This is good. Swiftech are standing behind their product as a choice for modders and backing that up with a fair* warranty, based on the assumption that people will want to pull these things apart and create something a little more custom. I like that.

* I mean fair as in right and proper, rather than fair taken to me "just about ok, I suppose".
Fair play to Swiftech on that one then. The only reason I asked is that in anything I've seen from CES or reviews it's not been covered as a point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

Oh, interesting point earlier re: Toms use of a different TIM and how it could potentially have boosted the results of the H100i - a fair point. I do wonder though, does anyone ever use the supplied TIM with an item when they've already bought (one assumes) what they consider the best? I know I don't. And this is true over several air and water CPU coolers as well as all the GPU blocks I've had. I want to use the best stuff I have on ALL my kit where there's an option, so I 100% see why Tom would do this.


Scoob.
I usually use MX-2 (personally for me it's the best for the money I want to spend on TIM) however when I bought my H100i I didn't realise I hadn't any MX-2 left so being impatient I fitted the unit with the supplied TIM and I'm getting good temps so I'm happy to leave it till I have cause to reseat it then apply the MX-2 and see the difference.

26-02-2013, 17:49:21

Scoob
I'm using MX-4 myself - it's been performing very consistantly during all my water cooling tinkering. I'm not sure if anything improves on it, I've not really looked! I will when I get close to running out...I got a bit too much for my initial project, hence it's lasted well.

I think if you're happy with performance using the supplied TIM then there's no need to change. However, at some point you'll just want to try it no doubt. I even lapped all my CPU's prior to my 2500k to give them even more of a boost...might yet do it if I ever remove the block... I have no need to, but I like tinkering.

Scoob.

26-02-2013, 17:58:54

Greenback
I use Phobya HeGrease it was 1 of the best (besides indigo extreme) when I put my loop together

26-02-2013, 18:40:58

sinnedone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
I have no need to, but I like tinkering.

Scoob.
lol i hear ya. lapped the h100i myself.

26-02-2013, 18:41:06

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
TBH I'm not an expert but I would like to challenge this assumption that 200rpm can make a 2 degree difference in temps.

I have a H100i and I run the fans at 1000rpm. If I increase them to 1200rpm I don't see a 2 degree drop in temperature nor if I drop the rpm to 800 do I see a 2 degree increase in temperature. 0.75 of a degree at most either way yes but nowhere near 2c
see below answer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
don't know if I'm missing something here but if:
200 rpm = 2c
then when tom puts the h100I to max thus 2800
800 rpm = 8c
so H100i max should be 8c cooler then at balanced unless they have changed how math works since I left school
I checked with our thermal engineer prior to suggesting this number and thus stand behind it. It's a question of load. The higher the load and the highest the Delta T could be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post
Anyway, I'd say BOTH methods are valid for testing, as long as they are fully explained - which I think Tom did.
Scoob.
We are in full agreement as to the validity of the testing methodologies, with an important distinction: we advocate publishing both data sets so as to provide accurate info to the full spectrum of users.

26-02-2013, 22:15:47

stormin
I have a question about the H220. If I mount to the front of my case, the tubes will be on the top, and the reservoir will be on the bottom. Will the reservoir on the bottom pose any problem?

26-02-2013, 22:28:54

Pholostan
I think the big thing with the H220 is the pump block. It's quite powerful with good flow rate and head pressure. And it's PWM controlled, something that's supported by all motherboards I've seen on the market. Martin took it apart in his review and had some interesting comments about it. I've disassembled some Asetek/Corsair pumps myself, and they look like cheap toys in comparison to the Swiftech pump. No wonder as the later is four to five times as powerful. Yeah, and the 60k hour MTBF on the pump is nothing to scoff at, D5 pumps have 50k in comparison.

I'm hoping that Swiftech releases the pump block as a separate product. There have been some comments from them on their own forum about that, and it looks like it probably will be a reality in the future. Stephen at Swiftech also talked about an "enthusiast version" of the pump, a high-performance on with head pressure in the 5 mH2O range. That sound interesting. Seems to be a ways off in the future though, as other stuff is more important right now (what could be more important than a high performance pump? I want it now!).

In the mean time, maybe I find some use for a dual rad with an integrated res. Maybe I can split the kit with someone, I keep the cpu block and pump, you can take the rest

And I seriously doubt that you get any noticeable gain running the pump at full blast with that small and low noise optimized radiator. 50% duty cycle would probably yield pretty much same result, with the side effect of having a pump that's close to inaudible. At full blast, that pump is good for several radiators and blocks. This kit after all is optimized for silence. That nice 8-way PWM splitter that is included makes it easy to run everything on PWM, nice and quiet.

26-02-2013, 23:21:14

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormin View Post
I have a question about the H220. If I mount to the front of my case, the tubes will be on the top, and the reservoir will be on the bottom. Will the reservoir on the bottom pose any problem?
Not if it's still a closed loop. If it's expanded upon and in this orientation, you will either need to add a secondary res or make sure the loop is full and bled properly, which is quite difficult.

27-02-2013, 02:22:35

stormin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
Not if it's still a closed loop. If it's expanded upon and in this orientation, you will either need to add a secondary res or make sure the loop is full and bled properly, which is quite difficult.
Thanks for answering my question! I'll be keeping it as a close loop for now, unless I feel brave enough later to add on to it.

27-02-2013, 13:29:31

dave:)
Could someone please explain how Gabe's initial comments on this thread have 'validated' Tom's findings? I find it hard to see how explaining how the discrepancies could have been introduced ( through Tom's methodology ) have in any way supported his findings, if anything they have just poked holes in his testing and I haven't read of a 'reply' to Gabe's comments made by Tom which is ominous..to be frank.

27-02-2013, 15:06:51

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
I checked with our thermal engineer prior to suggesting this number and thus stand behind it. It's a question of load. The higher the load and the highest the Delta T could be.
I would suggest that you employ a better thermal engineer then, one that isn't just a 'yes man'.

By his reckoning if I'm running my fans at 1000rpm and I max them out to 2300 (I'm not running stock H100i fans) then at full load when I get temps of 48c @1000 rpm my full load temps with the fans at max should be around 35c.

I can tell you right now that they are not. During my own stress testing, the difference between 1000rpm and 2300rpm was less than 5.5c, which is how I came to settle on 1000rpm as a fan speed. It was a decent compromise between noise and cooling.

27-02-2013, 15:20:31

qhfreddy
Just hopped on here about this, but I was very surprised by how it performed, I had expected around 3 C better than the H100i.

Guess I won't be buying this then, custom loop it is.

27-02-2013, 17:03:42

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
I would suggest that you employ a better thermal engineer then, one that isn't just a 'yes man'.

By his reckoning if I'm running my fans at 1000rpm and I max them out to 2300 (I'm not running stock H100i fans) then at full load when I get temps of 48c @1000 rpm my full load temps with the fans at max should be around 35c.

I can tell you right now that they are not. During my own stress testing, the difference between 1000rpm and 2300rpm was less than 5.5c, which is how I came to settle on 1000rpm as a fan speed. It was a decent compromise between noise and cooling.
How long is your stress testing? An extended test could give you quite a bit more difference. I mean, for all intents and purposes, I was fine running my H80 on a 5 GHz 2550K, because the computer was never under load for more than 30 min at a time. In that amount of time, temps were in the 70's. But any longer and it would creep into the 80*s and more.

27-02-2013, 19:51:56

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
I would suggest that you employ a better thermal engineer then, one that isn't just a 'yes man'.

By his reckoning if I'm running my fans at 1000rpm and I max them out to 2300 (I'm not running stock H100i fans) then at full load when I get temps of 48c @1000 rpm my full load temps with the fans at max should be around 35c.

I can tell you right now that they are not. During my own stress testing, the difference between 1000rpm and 2300rpm was less than 5.5c, which is how I came to settle on 1000rpm as a fan speed. It was a decent compromise between noise and cooling.
What is you CPU, its frequency and voltage ?

27-02-2013, 20:17:09

Greenback
I don't understand this all this because tom used different paste yet reviews linked from your site have comparison reviews where they use different systems yet your linking them as valid review and this 1 isn't?

27-02-2013, 20:42:58

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
I don't understand this all this because tom used different paste yet reviews linked from your site have comparison reviews where they use different systems yet your linking them as valid review and this 1 isn't?
Are you asking me?

Read my post please. I never said that the data wasn't valid. I suggested explanations for the variations in temperatures between Tom's data, and our own. I do stand behind my recommendations as two publishing two separate data sets (one with supplied thermal compound, and one with same thermal compound for all items compared in the article, as it provides users a more comprehensive view of the prodducts.

28-02-2013, 04:45:42

BradKing
I know I'm just a newbie here, but the engineer and pc enthusiast in me have to reply here. I'm very happy with the replies from Swiftech reps here, not just for the insight they provide, but also that they take this much of an interest in Tom's review.

About:
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
Are you asking me?

Read my post please. I never said that the data wasn't valid. I suggested explanations for the variations in temperatures between Tom's data, and our own. I do stand behind my recommendations as two publishing two separate data sets (one with supplied thermal compound, and one with same thermal compound for all items compared in the article, as it provides users a more comprehensive view of the products.
I would love to see results for both, heck, all products with both 'supplied thermal paste/solution' results and results after refit/with identical thermal paste. I'd go so far as I would like to see those result sets with identical fans too (ie four sets of results and probably the average of three runs per test for averages: I know, it's a huge time sink and very hard on reviewers, but I'd still like to see it ).

That said, it will be difficult to do if the product only has pre-applied paste (i.s.o. some included paste that the user has to apply themselves), since obviously no company would provide reviewers a new, previously reviewed, product every time a new product comes out, that's just silly. So it might be tricky to get the first set of results to be on the same exact rig/driver/software set as all the others. The second set will be able to (provided the reviewer takes the time to retest everything) include all this, so people like me would be more inclined to look at that anyway.


Then there is the whole bonus of the H220: you can mod/expand the set, which is a great thing for starters. But you wouldn't always do that with the set installed on your cpu, you'd take it off and swap paste to either your personal favourite, or a new application of the provided paste (if you have enough left). When you get bad heat results you might want to refit your cooler (I know I have done this quite a few times with my air coolers) just to be sure you may have drawn a bad ticket in the silicone lottery, which again means new/other paste.


So I think it is fair to say that the combination of using identical thermal paste (that might be of lesser quality than the H220 provided paste, although that too could be tested on both units) combined with the fact that the corsair fans in this case might be running at (way?) higher RPM and possibly higher noise levels (I think Tom commented on the low noise of the Swiftech H220) could very well cause the H100i in this case and set up to provide better thermal results than the H220, as the Swiftech reps have done. So kudos to both here. I would like to see Tom clarify this more rather than just saying the response validated his results (which I agree it did), to include some info like this rather than just mentioning it, but I guess he's pretty busy anyway :P

It is of course a bit impractical to try and review every unit with pre-applied/provided TIM since they don't all come out at the same time, making any results far enough apart to be compared fairly and I think the Swiftech guys kinda know that too, but I understand that their benches will include that. The whole RPM levels vs Corsair Link 'load levels' is something that will always be tricky, yet easily solved by switching fans (hey, it's not like reviewers need a life or anything ) and redoing all the test runs.. Yeah..

That Thermal Engineer's opinion sounds dodgy at best btw, I'll wait for actual tests on that rather than accept it now.


After this nice wall of text I'll just add that with Tom's bump up to gold (and thus due to Swiftech's more aggressive pricing) I've regained interest in the unit (slightly pending pricing in NL) and will wait to see results for expanded solutions tested

28-02-2013, 08:15:45

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
Are you asking me?

Read my post please. I never said that the data wasn't valid. I suggested explanations for the variations in temperatures between Tom's data, and our own. I do stand behind my recommendations as two publishing two separate data sets (one with supplied thermal compound, and one with same thermal compound for all items compared in the article, as it provides users a more comprehensive view of the products.
the point I'm making is the fuss your making over toms review showing the H100i 4.5c cooler then the H220 yet you have after this Compared to Corsair's H100i: a link that uses 2 different systems to compare the H100i and the H220 showing the H220 10c better then the H100i.
Now tom changing the thermal past is going to make a lot less difference and be more accurate to real world results then using 2 different systems as a comparison.

28-02-2013, 11:10:47

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
What is you CPU, its frequency and voltage ?
AMD Phenom II X4 B60
3.9Ghz (modest OC from stock 3.4)
1.342v

28-02-2013, 12:43:58

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
the point I'm making is the fuss your making over toms review showing the H100i 4.5c cooler then the H220 yet you have after this Compared to Corsair's H100i: a link that uses 2 different systems to compare the H100i and the H220 showing the H220 10c better then the H100i.
Thank you for clarifying your position; I do believe I already answered similar concerns you posted on OCN as follows:

"I think that you are referring to the CES presentations, and I'd like to clarify that we practically had no other choice but to do it that way because of what we wanted to show: comparing the operating noise and temperature between 4 similarly built systems running at the same frequency in the limited amount of time allowed by the format of this venue. You must realize that we couldn't demo each media representative by assembling disassembling the kits 4 times. It would have taken hours. Of course we knew that the kits would be later on tested in a proper and scientific format. Thus, you can be rest assured that there was absolutely no intention to mislead anyone in any way shape or form :-)"

So the links you are refering to are presentations to the Media.

Here we are discussing a review in proper testing format, and we are only trying to understand why the results so substantially differ from our own. This is scientific due diligence if you will.

28-02-2013, 13:17:34

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by BradKing View Post
It is of course a bit impractical to try and review every unit with pre-applied/provided TIM ...

That Thermal Engineer's opinion sounds dodgy at best btw, I'll wait for actual tests on that rather than accept it now.
Testing:
Yes it is indeed impractical. You only have one shot at testing unit with pre-applied grease. yet this is how users receive it. We understand that different reviewers have different priorities and audiences. The amount and type of data they publish is a reflection of such priorities. Our own goal is to promote user education by providing as much information as possible.

Thermal engineer discussion:
Still waiting for Resident's reponse to my questions.

28-02-2013, 13:31:20

garih
welcome to oc3d MR Rouchon, slightly off topic, but it is good to see someone like yourself taking the time to come here and answer questions and generally support your products, nice touch

28-02-2013, 13:58:56

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
I would suggest that you employ a better thermal engineer then, one that isn't just a 'yes man'.
See answer below

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradKing View Post
That Thermal Engineer's opinion sounds dodgy at best btw, I'll wait for actual tests on that rather than accept it now.
see answer below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
AMD Phenom II X4 B60
3.9Ghz (modest OC from stock 3.4)
1.342v
No wonder.. your heat load is very modest compared to the 2011 platform.

See our engineer's response below:

Assuming 150-200W heat load (2011 oc/ov)

Rth Difference between 1800 and 2000 RPM: 0.007 C/W to 0.018 C/W depending on the fan / rad.

Taking the 2 extreme cases:
Scenario 1 : 0.007 * 150 = 1.05 C
Scenario 2: 0.018 * 200 = 3.60 C

"Yes-man" still confirms 2C is in the ball park

I hope this clarifies your questions Resident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by garih View Post
welcome to oc3d MR Rouchon, slightly off topic, but it is good to see someone like yourself taking the time to come here and answer questions and generally support your products, nice touch

Thank you, just doing my job. We are very keen in reaching out to the UK community, and the best we know of is to support thru education.

28-02-2013, 15:39:00

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
Thank you for clarifying your position; I do believe I already answered similar concerns you posted on OCN as follows:

"I think that you are referring to the CES presentations, and I'd like to clarify that we practically had no other choice but to do it that way because of what we wanted to show: comparing the operating noise and temperature between 4 similarly built systems running at the same frequency in the limited amount of time allowed by the format of this venue. You must realize that we couldn't demo each media representative by assembling disassembling the kits 4 times. It would have taken hours. Of course we knew that the kits would be later on tested in a proper and scientific format. Thus, you can be rest assured that there was absolutely no intention to mislead anyone in any way shape or form :-)"

So the links you are refering to are presentations to the Media.

Here we are discussing a review in proper testing format, and we are only trying to understand why the results so substantially differ from our own. This is scientific due diligence if you will.
And as I put on OCN I not referring to your CES that I understand the limitations, I'm referring to the links you have under the videos and case pictures under H220 Reviews:
Compared to Corsair's H100i:

in actual fact there are 2 h220-h100i comparisons linked in that section where they use different systems and 1 states
we chose Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 as the thermal interface material.

28-02-2013, 15:39:03

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
No wonder.. your heat load is very modest compared to the 2011 platform.

See our engineer's response below:

Assuming 150-200W heat load (2011 oc/ov)

Rth Difference between 1800 and 2000 RPM: 0.007 C/W to 0.018 C/W depending on the fan / rad.

Taking the 2 extreme cases:
Scenario 1 : 0.007 * 150 = 1.05 C
Scenario 2: 0.018 * 200 = 3.60 C

"Yes-man" still confirms 2C is in the ball park

I hope this clarifies your questions Resident.
Ok, to save continuing the argument, I can see the math works in principle, however in the real world it doesn't quite fit, probably due to the assumptions be slightly out but I'm prepared, if you are, just to put it down to 'one of those bizarre things'

All I care about tbh is that my system is as cool as I want/need it to be.

Also just to echo what Garih said, I commend you taking the time to sign up and post here on OC3D. It's nice to see a CEO come onto the community forums and interact with the very people which potentially consume their products. It's not often that you see that, usually it's 'just' some representative, which is fine, I'm not having a pop at those companies in the least.

So kudos my good man!

28-02-2013, 16:06:58

Lystfiskern
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
We are very keen in reaching out to the UK community, and the best we know of is to support thru education.

What? Im part of the UK community?
And here I was thinking that the interwebz didnt have such boundaries....
So much for posing as a global player

28-02-2013, 22:26:23

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
And as I put on OCN I not referring to your CES that I understand the limitations, I'm referring to the links you have under the videos and case pictures under H220 Reviews:
Compared to Corsair's H100i:

in actual fact there are 2 h220-h100i comparisons linked in that section where they use different systems and 1 states
we chose Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 as the thermal interface material.
Hmm.. I was in Shenzhen when this one came out. Let me check it out.

01-03-2013, 07:42:39

tinytomlogan
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0


Thats a link to google docs. That is also Linus's aka NCIX Linus test reults. Oh look they are VERY similar if not worse than what I reported...

H100i 71c vs H220 82c?

01-03-2013, 07:59:39

Feronix
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=sharing#gid=0


Thats a link to google docs. That is also Linus's aka NCIX Linus test reults. Oh look they are VERY similar if not worse than what I reported...

H100i 71c vs H220 82c?
Only flaw there (imo) was that he didn't include the results of the H100i with its stock fans

01-03-2013, 08:04:16

Greenback
if you go to the kraken review he did you see the h100I with stock fans at balanced 64c.

a lot worse then you showed h220 18c warmer than H100i

01-03-2013, 08:12:21

jarryy
as reported in that doc. about 9.7 degree difference between the h220 with NH fans and the h100i (at load) however as the fans in use in that report are $29.95 each at the cheapest here in Australia, so an additional 60 dollars you need to add onto the h220 already is it justified for the 9.7c difference?

01-03-2013, 08:29:16

tinytomlogan
Its a shame there is no stock H100i results.

Never the less you can see it is possible to easily get a larger difference than I had.

Similar test kit used, just the fans that vary. Which was all along why the H100i won in my tests and I even said that!

01-03-2013, 08:47:33

Feronix
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Its a shame there is no stock H100i results.

Never the less you can see it is possible to easily get a larger difference than I had.

Similar test kit used, just the fans that vary. Which was all along why the H100i won in my tests and I even said that!
I'm still considering to buy the H220 though, I just like the looks more (and the pump).

What would you say to convince me to get the H100i besides that it performs slightly better? (I'll be having an i7 3770k on a 24/7 overclock of a very low 4 GHz)

01-03-2013, 08:49:07

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feronix View Post
I'm still considering to buy the H220 though, I just like the looks more (and the pump).

What would you say to convince me to get the H100i besides that it performs slightly better? (I'll be having an i7 3770k on a 24/7 overclock of a very low 4 GHz)

Its not for me to convince you either way mate. I tell you what I think in the videos and reviews, beyond that you buy what you like.

01-03-2013, 09:00:44

Feronix
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytomlogan View Post
Its not for me to convince you either way mate. I tell you what I think in the videos and reviews, beyond that you buy what you like.
Hehe okay, I'll think it over. Guess they both have their pros and cons. Won't have my money for a while anyway

01-03-2013, 09:01:57

ninogui
Because this subject raised enough interest from me to do so.

I kinda like Toms reviews. Opposite to most reviewers he charges a lot of emotion onto them so you feel he is really talking from the heart. This is good if you equate them the right way. Most reviewers are noticeably biased towards what they are reviewing and you can feel that if you are in this business for many years (like I am).
However new people should filter both emotional and biased reviews, as well as get the most info you can coming from everywhere before making a judgement on a particular hardware piece. Only then can you average them all and conclude by yourself.

I am almost sure Tom is not biased towards corsair and he would like to have another king of the hill on this (or any other piece of equipment).

Carefully listening to all the H20 review I have no doubts he was really expecting the H20 to perform much better than the H100i. So much it left him getting too much carried away out of emotion. When you go to lengths like waiting for the right time of day to get precise ambient temps and so forth you know he has really tried, but also means something has clearly gone wrong and reason leaves the room.

I do take note of Gabes involvement in this and I take my hat to him. This does not happen everyday on almost any other manufacturer. I think Sw are trying to close the gap between all in one and custom builds for a very reasonable price and thats good

I dont usually comment on stuff I didnt test or tried myself, but I felt pulled on this one.

Is the H20 pump louder ? it probably is, I dont find that surprising given its power capabilities. Could it run a bit more silent on lower rpms? It probably could if fed with cooler liquid from the rad, bonus would be less overall pump heat, one of Toms complaints. Also the nice looking mesh on top could be enabling an echo chamber effect on noise on colliding frequencies (or not!). A different dampening material as well as/or the apg drive II finned block build would probably help

The hoses should be shorter ? I would say yes by a bit. The longer the travel the less time liquid is being efficiently cooled at the rad. Hose run cooling is totally negligible. I would trade any day one mount option (front?) for a slightly shorter run

Rad seems pretty well built. Copper fins are great if well cooled, if not they could even be worse on a few scenarios. So...

So we come down to the fans. Of course I can understand Tom as he tries to review the kits as they come. But.. as linustechtips shows with a different fan better results are obtained.

To stop the AIO wars (lol) maybe the solution is way easier than expected.

I would say Gabe take notice maybe an improved fan design (or fan option to purchase instead of, call it extreme cooling fan option, whatever) and slightly shorter hose runs for H2O rev 2 would fill in the gaps

note: I am waiting for the next few developments or updates to buy one H2O myself

best rgds

01-03-2013, 09:07:54

s3ns3
Its a shame that swiftech use those weak fans.they brag about how silent it runs and thats the point really but only an overclocker would buy these kind of coolers anyway and they do want performance.who cares about silent when we benchmark.anyway ,this is the best performing predone liquid cooler there.i think ppl will buy along with it other fans.it doesn`t have to be noctuas lol,and it does offer other options so after me...best buy

01-03-2013, 09:29:15

peanutsrevenge
I just got done watching the Linus review and jumped around the FB page and here to see if it was mentioned and OMG, TTL himself has pointed to another reviewers results.

I felt something was wrong with what was tested by OC3D, whether it was a dodgy pump, flaw in the rad or crappy fans, something had to be wrong, surely.

But WTF, they've shipped a product with completely shite fans, how dumb are they?
If you've not got decent fans yourselves, don't ship with fans and let retails make bundles/customers pick their own fans, or pull in another manufacturers fans that actually work and use them.

Poor show Swiftech, these latest findings have devalued you further for me than just the OC3D test where I thought it was a faulty kit.


Must be nice to be TTL with these findings though so the haters can go swivel on further evidence there wasn't foul play

EDIT: I've now gone through and read a little more of the thread and seen Gabe's responses.
Although I don't fully agree with all the information provided (200rpm ~2 degrees), it's good to see his presence here and that Swiftech are hopefully taking on board the concerns, critisisms, suggestions and general feedback by us nerdy bastages. Several + points back to Swiftech!

01-03-2013, 12:32:23

Ghost_X
Now I don't understand if the CES presentations were using stock fans or custom fans. Using Gabe's thinking of using everything that comes stock with the coolers the CES results now seem wrong.

Good to know how much difference fans can make though!

01-03-2013, 13:15:11

grouchon
Gentlemen (and Ladies if any) :-)


I'm in middle of a product validation and have absolutely no time to comment, except this: be rest assured that no stone will be left unturned!


Generally speaking, you should be aware of this: we have been in the testing business for 15 years and we are known in the industry for publishing accurate data. We have the time, the intellectual resources, and the equipment to do so.


To be continued :-)

01-03-2013, 13:26:12

Feronix
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
Gentlemen (and Ladies if any) :-)


I'm in middle of a product validation and have absolutely no time to comment, except this: be rest assured that no stone will be left unturned!


Generally speaking, you should be aware of this: we have been in the testing business for 15 years and we are known in the industry for publishing accurate data. We have the time, the intellectual resources, and the equipment to do so.


To be continued :-)
Thanks for this post, I'm looking forward to what you come up with

01-03-2013, 13:32:35

airdeano
Quote:
Originally Posted by s3ns3 View Post
Its a shame that swiftech use those weak fans.they brag about how silent it runs and thats the point really but only an overclocker would buy these kind of coolers anyway and they do want performance.who cares about silent when we benchmark.anyway ,this is the best performing predone liquid cooler there.i think ppl will buy along with it other fans.it doesn`t have to be noctuas lol,and it does offer other options so after me...best buy
i know some of you may not understand, the the fan choice of the H220 is
an excellent one (as compared from others). i have them and they are an
excellent choice over the AP-15 that everyone seems to be in love with.
so i wouldn't be saying they are weak at all.

01-03-2013, 15:22:04

stormin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feronix View Post
Thanks for this post, I'm looking forward to what you come up with
Hopefully better fans. Or maybe a voucher of some sort to buy fans of your choice for a discount.

01-03-2013, 19:04:28

grouchon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
the point I'm making is the fuss your making over toms review showing the H100i 4.5c cooler then the H220 yet you have after this Compared to Corsair's H100i: a link that uses 2 different systems to compare the H100i and the H220 showing the H220 10c better then the H100i.
Now tom changing the thermal past is going to make a lot less difference and be more accurate to real world results then using 2 different systems as a comparison.
Hello there,

I finally have a few minutes to respond to the various posts you've had here and on OCN.

The review you are referring to was published while I was in Shenzhen dealing with H220 production on a 14 hour day basis. So yes I saw it, jumped to the test results and they didn't shock me (just a couple of degrees apart); so I didn't pay attention to the testing methodology.

In contrast, I had the time to watch Tom's video in full, and the results did shock me. I double-checked with Stephen (our thermal engineer) what his results were, and proceeded to start investigating.

I didn't "make a fuss", I didn't "moan" as you said in another post. I investigated. I didn't accuse, I suggested and asked questions, none of which have been answered to this date by the way. Tom's review was - according to many other posters here an elsewhere, very negative. But did you hear me say this? No. I chose not to comment on any of Tom's opinions because they were not based on data. I suppose it might surprise you that a CEO would be taking the time to respond to a review on a forum, and as such imagine that this me making a fuss. But it is not the case. I post on forums all the time (correction, whenever I HAVE the time), so its not unusual for me. I've doing it for 15 years.

So your conclusion : "So it seems it's ok if the results show what they want" is really incorrect. 1/ there is no malice towards Tom, and 2/ there is no agenda either. Note that I have had extremely severe arguments with reviewer friends. So when I see something that catches my attention I do discuss it, and that's all you should read into it.

I hope this answered your specific question.

01-03-2013, 19:17:44

DoctorNick
Hey Tom you should try to check out Linus' review. He uses different TIM and fans and it seems to make quite a difference

01-03-2013, 19:31:45

peanutsrevenge
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorNick View Post
Hey Tom you should try to check out Linus' review. He uses different TIM and fans and it seems to make quite a difference
He already linked to linus' spreadsheet results in this post
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showpos...&postcount=129

01-03-2013, 19:44:18

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by grouchon View Post
Hello there,

I finally have a few minutes to respond to the various posts you've had here and on OCN.

The review you are referring to was published while I was in Shenzhen dealing with H220 production on a 14 hour day basis. So yes I saw it, jumped to the test results and they didn't shock me (just a couple of degrees apart); so I didn't pay attention to the testing methodology.

In contrast, I had the time to watch Tom's video in full, and the results did shock me. I double-checked with Stephen (our thermal engineer) what his results were, and proceeded to start investigating.

I didn't "make a fuss", I didn't "moan" as you said in another post. I investigated. I didn't accuse, I suggested and asked questions, none of which have been answered to this date by the way. Tom's review was - according to many other posters here an elsewhere, very negative. But did you hear me say this? No. I chose not to comment on any of Tom's opinions because they were not based on data. I suppose it might surprise you that a CEO would be taking the time to respond to a review on a forum, and as such imagine that this me making a fuss. But it is not the case. I post on forums all the time (correction, whenever I HAVE the time), so its not unusual for me. I've doing it for 15 years.

So your conclusion : "So it seems it's ok if the results show what they want" is really incorrect. 1/ there is no malice towards Tom, and 2/ there is no agenda either. Note that I have had extremely severe arguments with reviewer friends. So when I see something that catches my attention I do discuss it, and that's all you should read into it.

I hope this answered your specific question.
To start I never question swiftechs interest in customers issues and helping on forums, it's excellent.

The review I was referring to show an average 7.5c cooler cpu with the h220 over the H100i, and my concern was that as it's linked from your site and as you did ppl just look at graphs rather then check the method would assume that it's a proper comparison done on the same system, where as it's more an estimate done on 2 different systems on both xcpus and occ.
This was why I thought it was misleading

Quote:
Originally Posted by peanutsrevenge View Post
He already linked to linus' spreadsheet results in this post
http://forum.overclock3d.net/showpost.php?p=619932&postcount=129
I would be surprised by a 20c difference just by changing fans considering he mentioins running at 7v

01-03-2013, 20:25:55

peanutsrevenge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
I would be surprised by a 20c difference just by changing fans considering he mentioins running at 7v
It is pretty huge, but it was also surprising to everyone that the H220 performed so poorly (for two reviewers I respect highly (Linus & co and OC3D) and one who found it performed well (Anandtech)).

I hope that this does get looked into further by those I've mentioned just for clarity's sake.
I'm not one for AIO coolers, I currently use BIG AIR and plan on custom loop in the future, but this one's really perked my interest as I believe it has many others.

Hoping it gets mentioned on the live stream I'll be watching tomorrow

01-03-2013, 20:33:47

Feronix
I believe HiTechLegion's review was quite positive as well. They seem to be pretty popular however I personally don't really know them...

Kind of odd, and I too hope that someone figures out what the deal is about this cooler

01-03-2013, 20:37:05

Vlada011
What is this, whole mess here...H100-H220-H100i better, worse, TIM, fans, ...
For me everything is clear... Koolance is WINNER. Model PMP-450/370SI/360mm and no more thinking.

01-03-2013, 20:38:45

peanutsrevenge
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlada011 View Post
What is this, whole mess here...H100-H220-H100i better, worse, TIM, fans, ...
For me everything is clear... Koolance is WINNER. Model PMP-450/370SI/360mm and no more thinking.
Says the guy with the H100

01-03-2013, 21:30:36

Phelan
I can tell you that I believe something is wrong in Linus' results. Whether it be a bad contact, bad fans, or whatever. Both the Helix fans and Noctua fans are similarly rated, so to see 20*C difference is quite a shocker.

Martin will be doing an extremely detailed head-to-head review soon of the H220 vs the H100i. I eagerly await his results .

02-03-2013, 05:21:39

Lystfiskern
Ok im not a fan boy of any camp - will buy whatever i like.
But im starting to wonder - what is really going on here?
First Toms results are "strange" and now something must be wrong with Linus results...

Is there a way to put these two to a 100% equal test that completely rules out any faults and interpetation that metology was chosen to suit one or the other? If so - just do it.

02-03-2013, 09:53:35

F-alienware
Can I just ask a really important question?

What is your protocol in the case of a leak? do you take care of your customers?

I ask because I had a coolit leak on me last year causing 300 worth of damage and they simply told me to dunk all of my stuff in distilled water and when I told them I wasn't comfortable doing that (as it would void my warranties) they told me to f**k off.

Do you cover your customers? I know leaks are very rare but it's always good to know that a company will do the right thing.

02-03-2013, 10:01:07

qhfreddy
I don't know if this was brought up at any time before, but Linus Tech Tips finds the stock fans to be very bad on the cooler, replacing them with NF-F 12s yielded temps lower than the H110.

02-03-2013, 10:12:15

airdeano
Quote:
Originally Posted by qhfreddy View Post
I don't know if this was brought up at any time before, but Linus Tech Tips finds the stock fans to be very bad on the cooler, replacing them with NF-F 12s yielded temps lower than the H110.
yes, it has been mentioned, brought up and scrutinized.

02-03-2013, 11:01:39

Feronix
He did use pull on them though, I don't know if it makes a difference? I've heard that it doesn't really matter, which makes sense as a fan can't push more air than it pulls. However, when pushing the air the airflow should be more directed, especially with pressure optimized fan designs?

03-03-2013, 01:20:18

USAdystopia
Well, I just purchased one of the H220s. May configure it with Cougar PWM fans in a push/pull configuration as they worked so well in the Corsair H100.

Planning to purchase a pair of Komodo 7970 waterblocks and another radiator from his product line.

M. Grouchon appears to be someone that is dedicated that the term mediocrity shall never be associated with his Swiftech brand.

03-03-2013, 04:50:59

Vlada011
Yes I have H100 and Hydro Series is my favorite AIO CPU cooler type.
I thought this would be revolution I mean 10C better in full load. With one graphic card and CPU at full load temps like H100 and 3700k...But maybe this is close to border for that types of coolers... I was always for fast and simple solution but every day and I start to think more and more ... D5 pump will be good years(5-6) you can build in several options and change later loop with same hardware with little more parts, radiator who knows... CPU block 2-3 platform...
Later you sell fittings, change tubes, loop and that's like completely new system, give new impression with 90% same parts on next platform.

04-03-2013, 13:03:18

NRG!
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAdystopia View Post
Well, I just purchased one of the H220s. May configure it with Cougar PWM fans in a push/pull configuration as they worked so well in the Corsair H100.

Planning to purchase a pair of Komodo 7970 waterblocks and another radiator from his product line.

M. Grouchon appears to be someone that is dedicated that the term mediocrity shall never be associated with his Swiftech brand.
The komodo/hydrocopper waterblocks aren't exactly the pinnacle of waterblock design tbh. Middle of the pack performers with high restriction and a high price. Aesthetics to each their own, but I think they are very plain compared to offerings from some other brands.

I'd like to see swiftech improve those in the next iteration because I like their complete full cover style, and the only other offering like that is the dreaded EK CSQ. I just can't stand the current plastic guff with a sticker on it.

04-03-2013, 14:31:58

BramSLI1
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienALX View Post
Can I just ask a really important question?

What is your protocol in the case of a leak? do you take care of your customers?

I ask because I had a coolit leak on me last year causing 300 worth of damage and they simply told me to dunk all of my stuff in distilled water and when I told them I wasn't comfortable doing that (as it would void my warranties) they told me to f**k off.

Do you cover your customers? I know leaks are very rare but it's always good to know that a company will do the right thing.
Our warranty doesn't cover damage to components if our product leaks. This is pretty much the way we've always done things and most other water cooling companies won't cover hardware damage either. In fact, I don't know of any off of the top of my head that do. I hope this answers your question and I'm sorry that it isn't the one that you were probably looking for.

07-03-2013, 07:42:28

Fetzie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=HJQBzMALZ7s

Linus just posted a video, saying that the engineering sample he was sent could have been faulty (different filling procedure for engineering samples leading to air-bubbles in the loop), and that the fan speed adapters used throttled the stock fans right down to 600 RPM. It still beat the competition, so any lead it has would be even bigger if it were indeed faulty. He is going to wait for a retail unit to retest.

Could TTL's sample also have had this issue (which would certainly reduce its performance)?

07-03-2013, 07:50:24

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=HJQBzMALZ7s

Linus just posted a video, saying that the engineering sample he was sent could have been faulty (different filling procedure for engineering samples leading to air-bubbles in the loop), and that the fan speed adapters used throttled the stock fans right down to 600 RPM. It still beat the competition, so any lead it has would be even bigger if it were indeed faulty. He is going to wait for a retail unit to retest.

Could TTL's sample also have had this issue (which would certainly reduce its performance)?
I could of been faulty! not it was.

With the stock fans it had no lead, it was with the noctua fans it had a lead. And also he mentions he uses the fan reducers in every test which means that they also wouldn't of been running at full speed, any comparison is flawed unless he retests everything the same

07-03-2013, 08:13:12

BradKing
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fetzie View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=HJQBzMALZ7s

Linus just posted a video, saying that the engineering sample he was sent could have been faulty (different filling procedure for engineering samples leading to air-bubbles in the loop), and that the fan speed adapters used throttled the stock fans right down to 600 RPM. It still beat the competition, so any lead it has would be even bigger if it were indeed faulty. He is going to wait for a retail unit to retest.

Could TTL's sample also have had this issue (which would certainly reduce its performance)?
Not sure if OC3D got an engineering sample or not, if there would be air in the loop that obviously could impact the results; that said, I think the rad was in the top and the reservoir bit was the highest in the loop, so it should have been pretty OK after a while. Even then, I'd cut back the hose length myself so it would be hard to get it vacuum filled at home anyway :P

The other part is a lot more interesting, the fact the fans didn't seem to react correctly to lower/direct voltages and that Swiftech asked Linus to do a pwm run too, since the OC3D tests were at 12V for the fans and the pump. If that screws up the performance a bit it could well explain how Swiftech feels it should perform better.

It's looking better already Now we need to get some resellers in NL (H220 is 140 euro before delivery, h100i under 100 euro delivered, that's not a gold award )

07-03-2013, 08:13:54

jarryy
so much hassle over a AIO, all these test results has just taught me to stick with my NH-d14 :3

07-03-2013, 08:20:20

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
I could of been faulty! not it was.

With the stock fans it had no lead, it was with the noctua fans it had a lead. And also he mentions he uses the fan reducers in every test which means that they also wouldn't of been running at full speed, any comparison is flawed unless he retests everything the same
He is doing a complete retest. The difference is that while the other fans worked fined at 7-9v (whatever the reducers were) and ran at about 1100-1200 rpm, the Helix fans do not. The reducers dropped their RPMs all the way down to 600 rpm. He also mentioned that the review units weren't filled using Swiftech's new vacuum fill system, and it had an air bubbles in it, and that running the pump at max speed was pushing the air around causing excess noise and having an adverse effect on temps, which is why he got better temps running the pump at 50%. As I mentioned earlier, with a pump this strong, there's no reason to run it full speed when using it as a CLC. 60% speed (about 1800 rpm, what other AIO pumps run at) will provide the same or better temps with much less noise.

07-03-2013, 08:31:07

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
He is doing a complete retest. The difference is that while the other fans worked fined at 7-9v (whatever the reducers were) and ran at about 1100-1200 rpm, the Helix fans do not. The reducers dropped their RPMs all the way down to 600 rpm. He also mentioned that the review units weren't filled using Swiftech's new vacuum fill system, and it had an air bubbles in it, and that running the pump at max speed was pushing the air around causing excess noise and having an adverse effect on temps, which is why he got better temps running the pump at 50%. As I mentioned earlier, with a pump this strong, there's no reason to run it full speed when using it as a CLC. 60% speed (about 1800 rpm, what other AIO pumps run at) will provide the same or better temps with much less noise.
If the stock fans on the kraken's and corsair had a reducer and ran at about 1100-1200 rpm when he tested them then it isn't running at it's best, he didn't notice on this who is to say he missed it on the others

He says that it may have air bubles not it has

07-03-2013, 08:32:23

d6bmg
I would say it is a descent cooler. We all have hoped for improvement, but alas, it's not there. Still good as second choice cooler.

07-03-2013, 08:36:52

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenback View Post
If the stock fans on the kraken's and corsair had a reducer and ran at about 1100-1200 rpm when he tested them then it isn't running at it's best, he didn't notice on this who is to say he missed it on the others

He says that it may have air bubles not it has
He said in the followup video that after investigating the other fans ran fine with the reducers. The Helix PWM fans were the only ones he found to have issue with them in the investigation. But he's retesting all of them afaik.

07-03-2013, 08:54:04

Greenback
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
He said in the followup video that after investigating the other fans ran fine with the reducers. The Helix PWM fans were the only ones he found to have issue with them in the investigation. But he's retesting all of them afaik.
He says it's been "fine in the past" Not after investigating, but with out retesting who knows?.
But still comes back to if the stock fans had reducers then they weren't running at best thus a comparison is flawed, The H100i uses high speed fans H220 uses lower speed fans thus if you ran fans on both of them at 1100-1200 rpm thats nearly full speed for H220 and less then 50% for H100i

08-03-2013, 04:46:24

Resident
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phelan View Post
... it full speed when using it as a CLC. 60% speed (about 1800 rpm, what other AIO pumps run at)
1800rpm for all other AIO pumps? You're sure about that are you?

http://i.imgur.com/zOt56I8.png

Pretty sure that states just under 2300rpm

08-03-2013, 09:57:02

Phelan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resident View Post
1800rpm for all other AIO pumps? You're sure about that are you?

http://i.imgur.com/zOt56I8.png

Pretty sure that states just under 2300rpm
Whoops my bad; I was misinformed on pump's speed. Regardless, I'm pretty sure the H220 pushes more water @1800 rpm than the cool-it/asetek units @2300, or at least similar.

25-04-2013, 06:21:41

JettonX
So how is it that these results were so different to other reviews?

25-04-2013, 06:36:47

tinytomlogan
Quote:
Originally Posted by JettonX View Post
So how is it that these results were so different to other reviews?
Because we keep strict testing procedures and wouldnt change them to make this look different.

All info you need is in the conclusion. Its also worth noting Gabe understood and explained our results validating them.

25-04-2013, 07:01:06

JettonX
Guess that's the H220 off the list then!
Reply
x

Register for the OC3D Newsletter

Subscribing to the OC3D newsletter will keep you up-to-date on the latest technology reviews, competitions and goings-on at Overclock3D. We won't share your email address with ANYONE, and we will only email you with updates on site news, reviews, and competitions and you can unsubscribe easily at any time.

Simply enter your name and email address into the box below and be sure to click on the links in the confirmation emails that will arrive in your e-mail shortly after to complete the registration.

If you run into any problems, just drop us a message on the forums.